January 07, 2005
A Sober Decision, To Contest The Election

Two weeks ago here, after Christine Gregoire pulled ahead in the Washington Governor's election with a second recount, I wrote that Dino Rossi and his backers should promptly marshall strong evidence for a challenge, or stand down.

Well it took a while, as these things do. But thanks especially to Stefan Sharkansky of Sound Politics, many alert Sound Politics readers, and the Building Industry Association of Washington (none of whom needed any prodding from me or anyone else, I might add) a great deal of substantial evidence of ERRORS and MISTAKES has been gathered.

These errors and mistakes have included: no less than 1,200 MORE votes counted in King County than individual voters accounted for; similar, though smaller "excess votes" in other counties; hundreds of unverified provisional ballots fed right into vote-counting machines in King County; the dead and felons voting in Puget Sound counties; and the court-approved but increasingly suspicious divining of intent from unclearly-marked ballots in King County, plus the subsequent erasure or removal of original markings on such ballots.

And all this is largely said by defenders of the recent election process to be within "normal" circumstances? Lord help us, if so.

With a victory margin of just 129 votes for Gregoire, most reasonable people - regardless of party affiliation - would conclude there is a substantial case, at least worthy of court review as provided for by law, that these errors and mistakes may well make it impossible to trust the 2004 Washington gubernatorial election results.

In other words, Dino Rossi is not only well within his legal rights to contest the election, it is eminently justifiable.

Columnist Peter Callaghan addresses this issue in the Tacoma News-Tribune, and as you will see, his tone is hardly that of a jeering GOP partisan:

Throughout the debate over the counting and recounting of ballots, few of the players have consistently supported letting the legal process run its course.

Democratic Party officials endorsed it when Gregoire was behind. Republican officials endorse it now that Rossi is behind. Republicans wanted Gregoire to give up when she was behind, and Democrats want Rossi to give up now.

Both were right half of the time. It was proper for Gregoire’s supporters to have an automatic machine recount when Rossi led by 261 and it was proper for them to buy a hand recount when Rossi led by 42 votes. Both recounts are clearly provided in state law.

Now, it is proper for Rossi’s supporters to have the courts review allegations of illegal votes and improper conduct by election officials. That too is clearly provided in state law.

The contested election laws are specific. Any voter can file a challenge. If the court finds that the number of illegal or improper votes, if taken away from the winning candidate, would have given the election to the losing candidate, the court can nullify the results. This can happen even after Gregoire is issued a certificate of election and is sworn in.

And so it has begun this afternoon. Rossi's people are right on the money emphasizing the issue is errors and mistakes, not fraud. Fraud may eventually be shown, but it is not the central issue. The mistakes are.

Let the courts sort it out. That's what they're there for.

And remember, we need to count votes the way we count money.

Posted by Matt Rosenberg at January 07, 2005 05:09 PM | Email This
Comments
1. I just want to know one thing. Why is it ok for the republicans to say, Move on, get over it. But when I remind The republicans of the exact same thing, Its like I committed a federal offense

So, one more time.

Get over it, You all lost the Democrats won

Move On

Posted by: Magnum Serpentine on January 7, 2005 05:43 PM
2. RALLY STILL ON!!!
AND MORE IMPORTANT THEN EVER

10:30am
Jan. 11th
Olympia

Need to make sure our legislators know that the majority of the population does not support the certification of Chris/Christine Gregoire.

Also if you haven't already PLEASE go to revotewa.com and fill out the petition!

Posted by: Joe on January 7, 2005 05:49 PM
3. Magnum:

Are you a broken record? Can you sing any other tune?

Posted by: Miriam on January 7, 2005 05:56 PM
4. The same party who is making a big deal about the election in Ohio where Bush won by 112000 votes don't think the Republicans should say anything when the election was stolen. Keep fighting.

Posted by: Robert on January 7, 2005 05:56 PM
5. King County has released its updated list of voters credited with voting:

http://www.metrokc.gov/elections/news/2005_01_07b.htm

"The reconciliation work done this week reduced the difference between ballots cast and voters credited from 3,539 to 1,217. This number includes 348 provisional ballots mistakenly put through vote tabulation machines at polling places.

"Through the reconciliation process, staff corrected and credited 1,654 voting records not credited in the preliminary file released last week.

"Staff confirmed 69 Address Confidentiality Program voters cast ballots and 251 federal write-in absentee ballots were tabulated. These represent validly cast ballots, that are not accounted for in the registration database.

"Given this work, staff can confirm that an additional 1,654 voters were credited for voting during the reconciliation process and 668 ballots were accounted for but not represented in the registration system.

"The remaining difference in the number of votes cast versus the number of registrations credited with voting in the 2004 General Election is 1,217 – an accuracy rate of 99.99% based on close to 900,000 ballots cast.

"This number is consistent with historic reconciliation rates for King County. In 2000 this number was 1,230."

Posted by: Micajah on January 7, 2005 05:58 PM
6. I am amazed that so many people view the Washington State election issue through partisan glasses. Do they not understand that the issue raised by most of the bloggers in this election has nothing to do with who won or who lost. It has everthing to do with how the election was run.

All the evidence to date shows that Washington State election proceedures in and of themselves do not have sufficient checks and balances to provide proper audit trails. Couple that with the actual execution of this election and malfeasence of election officials and you have every reason to both have a new election and tar and feather the current election officials who oversaw this debacle.

I suggest all of you who do not understand the issue of tieing the number of voters to the actual ballots cast try the same thing with your income tax return. Well Mr. Auditor, yes there is more cash received in my checking account than reported as Gross Income on my tax return. No I cannot explain how that happened, but don't worry I truthfully reported all my income. Think that will fly?

Posted by: Not a Yank on January 7, 2005 05:58 PM
7. Drunken Snake, have another.

Posted by: smegma on January 7, 2005 05:59 PM
8. Sober decision? PUHLLLEEESE!

Florida 2000 is fresh...taking the oath after losing elections is a tradition....now THAT's sobering!

Posted by: Scared for USA on January 7, 2005 06:07 PM
9. Scared For USA,

It is all about the math, and I suggest you and Magnum stop tipping the bottle together, it can lead to arguments...

Posted by: smegma on January 7, 2005 06:11 PM
10. While many people are being helpful, the research for this contest action is being done by the incredibly dedicated and underpaid staff and lawyers of the Rossi campaign and the State Party.

Posted by: Chris Vance on January 7, 2005 06:45 PM
11. Chris,
You are absolutely correct to recognize the real hard work to bring out all of the facts which have created a basis for a contested election. Some very good legal analysis has obviously been accomplished during the few weeks.
We should also appreciate the resolute resolve of the GOP and especially Dino Rossi himself for pushing these issues forward with resolve and for the right reasons. I hope that the courts and legislature will now recognize the Nov 2nd election as being null and void and allow a revote. Thanks to you, too, Chris Vance!

Posted by: balanced but fair on January 7, 2005 07:09 PM
12. GO CHRIS !!!

I usually just watch and listen....But with all the rederic that is starting to be posted, I needed to post s comment.

I am so glad for the move that Dino has donetoday, because I was worried that if the effort was on just the legislator, thant ther may have been a delay in the revote. Now since the Rossi Champain has stepped forward there maight be a bigger influence on the dems side of the leg too look at what the voters have petitioned for, "revotewa.com petition.

I look forward to the starting of our Legislation session to begin and see the reaction to all od this. So far the emails I have received back, it is in the favor of the Legislator (both house and senat) to call for a sopecial ellection for a re-vote here in WA for this governors race.

I wished very much to be at the ralley on Tuesday, but with our transportation to and fro from my location, it is imposible for me to be there at this tim...not that I am still working on transportaion issues for myself... If I should noit make in their in person, I shall by all means be their in SPIRIT......

B from Repoublic WA

Posted by: BS in republicWA on January 7, 2005 07:15 PM
13. "We need to count the votes the way we count money". Be careful. It is easier to commit vote fraud in this state than it is to commit fraud with a check. We require proof of ID when we cash a check, why isn't that the case when we vote?

Posted by: Bruce B. on January 7, 2005 07:18 PM
14. Sorry for spelling erros and such of my last post. I am not good at these posts due to visual aquity problems. Hope all will understand the disabled poster.... B in republic

Posted by: BS in republicWA on January 7, 2005 07:20 PM
15. Not a Yank wrote:

"All the evidence to date shows that Washington State election proceedures in and of themselves do not have sufficient checks and balances to provide proper audit trails."

Thank you. From your resident Democrat, I agree. Many posters here may be beginning to understand Democrats' reluctance to accept the electronic voting machines with no paper ballot. Too much potential for tampering. Even with paper ballots, we've got this mess that the courts will now have to sort out.

Some of you that are protesting the certification may be missing the point. It's a formality that will be thrown out if the court finds that the election is invalid. The court should not, and must not be swayed by public opinion. The facts, and only the facts (as presented to the court) should be considered.

As I wrote in another thread, I will accept the court's judgement, even if I don't like it. If it goes differently than I think it should, I will assume that they knew something I did not.

If we end up re-voting, I'll happily drive on down to my polling place and cast my vote. Assuming that they add this race to the upcoming bond election in February, it will even help to validate that race. I'll accept the results from that election.

So, my question to the other posters here is, will you? Even if you lose?

Posted by: John Barelli on January 7, 2005 07:22 PM
16. I can't speak for anyone else, but all I'm entitled to is a clean election. Heck, I would have accepted Gregoire as legitimate if her win had been clean.

Posted by: South County on January 7, 2005 07:28 PM
17. BS in republicWA,

OWWW! I wanted to, but my (oww!), oh never mind...try to be vigilant, and if you need help, ask...

Posted by: smegma on January 7, 2005 07:30 PM
18. You were fine BS.

If you can't be in Olympia on Tuesday, you can still were ORANGE! I bought a roll of neon orange construction tape at McClendon Hardware for $1.59 and it proudly waves from my antenna.

To anyone else that can't get to Olympia, perhaps you can gather some folks to meet in front of your local city hall. Imagine the news reports: "Waves of Re-Vote ORANGE in front of city halls all across Washington today in support of Dino Rossi..."

Posted by: Cheryl on January 7, 2005 07:31 PM
19. John Barelli,

I most certainly will vote in the revote... I don't think that it will happen in the February election, since some of the all mail out counties will be mailing there ballots out next week will be able to accomidate the revote for gov. But in the long run, I will cast my ballot for this revot as soon as it is do-able.

Posted by: BS in republicWA on January 7, 2005 07:32 PM
20. BS,

Sorry, got my Dachshund stuck in the drain again.

Cheryl! I like it!

smeg...

Posted by: smegma on January 7, 2005 07:38 PM
21. Thank you smegma and Cheryl fro youe quick response.... I will definatlly be wearinf orange next Tuesday... I also would love to be at the ralley, but since Republic is so out of the way....well even thou, I don't think I would be able to get someone to volunteer to pick me up for the ride...but thnks anyway. but then again if anyone is willing to give me a ride I would be so appreciated ... BS

Posted by: BS in republicWA on January 7, 2005 07:42 PM
22. John Barelli,

Yes, IF it is a clean election. It is funny to me that so many Democrats on here say that we are upset just because our guy lost. Let's see....Locke won in 2000 (and I didn't want him) yet I didn't complain because I THOUGHT the election process here was clean. Clinton (YUCK!) won twice and I didn't complain, I accepted it. Now that I know it isn't..I am upset. Had gregoire won "fair and square" without the rules being changed in the middle of the game, without the illegal votes by dead people, felons, and mishandled provisionals, I would have been unhappy that she won. However, I would have accepted that she was the legitimate governor.

Posted by: Miriam on January 7, 2005 08:20 PM
23. Do we have a link to the *updated* KC voters list?

Posted by: Deborah on January 7, 2005 08:23 PM
24. Miriam wrote:

"It is funny to me that so many Democrats on here say that we are upset just because our guy lost."

No, many (hopefully most) Republicans (and Democrats) are upset because of the failures in the system that need to be addressed.

There is a certain amusement, however, when some of the same people that said "your guy lost, get over it" to us, when we were complaining about failures in the system (you remember, Ohio and Florida?) are now demanding that the system be accountable.

Oh, and I find it almost equally amusing (and somewhat more troubling) that some of the people that were demanding that the system be accountable are now saying "your guy lost, get over it."

I really do hope that all the attention causes some real changes. I'm also hoping that it isn't just in Washington. We aren't the only place that has these problems. It just happens that we had an amazingly close election that spotlighted them. Had either candidate won by a few thousand votes, almost nobody would be giving this a second thought.

Both parties, and the nation as a whole are best served by honest, verifiable elections. Unfortunately, both parties have individual zealots that seem to think that "the ends justify the means" and that the results of losing an election are so awful that cheating is acceptable.

"Everyone does it" is not only not true, but an unacceptable reason even if it were.

I believe that most of the mistakes made by officials were just that. Mistakes. Admittedly, there is what we used to call in the Navy an "appearance of impropriety." But even Mr. Rossi is not claiming that there was intentional fraud, nor are the Republican observers, whom I presume were actually observing.

Still, there are enough questions that I would understand the court ordering new elections. Let's just hope that isn't the end of it, regardless of the outcome.

Posted by: John Barelli on January 7, 2005 09:22 PM
25. For John Barelli: Rossi wants a ReVote, and if this happens, and it is shown to be fair, we will all have to accept the results. I would rather have the manual recount thrown out, and Rossi declared the Governor, but I understand why Rossi thinks a ReVote is needed.

Posted by: JG on January 7, 2005 09:59 PM
26. I was just thinking of bank transactions or my mutual funds transactions today, coincidently. I wondered how people would feel if they were often told: "Yah, we kinda remember that $1800 deposit, but we don't know what happened to it. Besides, that happens all the time!"

Posted by: Michele on January 7, 2005 10:35 PM
27. Right Michele - isn't is strange how we've had ATMs for years and even get a receipt. Yet we just can't quite seem to convert the same technology over to voting. Doesn't add up. If Washington state had a state income tax - do you think they'd be this cavalier? They'd make the IRS look like choir boys.

Posted by: CP on January 7, 2005 10:57 PM
28. I was pondering a suggestion posted earlier, that if there is a re-vote every Washington voter should have to re-register beforehand. That might not be practical from a logistics standpoint. In the long term, though: we have to renew our drivers license every 5 years - why not our voter registration?

Posted by: Patrick on January 7, 2005 11:01 PM
29. it is so vital that Rossi see this thru, no matter what...

the brazenly fraudulent ways in which the King co. Democrat party pulled off this miracle "win" for one of their hacks is one for the ages....

I especially like the way they decided that they needed to send more ballots than normal to the democrat controlled canvass committee, midway thru the last recount....almost as if they were told to do that by Gregorie people.....

It is blatantly unconstitutional IMO that ballot counting methods CHANGE to favor one canidate not only after the election, but midway thru the 3rd count....

doing that disenfranchises every voter outside of King co......

fight on Rossi!.....full speed ahead and damn the torpedoes!

Posted by: lee on January 7, 2005 11:19 PM
30. Durring the Press conference today I called Gregoires Campaign Office. Politely I asked if they were watching the press conference. The person acted surprised to hear of the press Conf. I asked if CG was going for the REVOTE and at that point she could not answer and told me to call back next week. I said what about all the recent developments,, reply, I really don't know anything about that call back next week. I said, really? OK! I couldn't hepl but laugh as I hung up.
What is wrong with this picture? No clear answers for her future subjects, how troubling!

Posted by: CJensen on January 7, 2005 11:32 PM
31. Call # 2

Wa Democrats office, I asked if they were going along with the revote, No we are against the REVOTE the voice said. I asked, what about all the new findings this week, are they of concern or is it really nothing? Voice dismissed new findings as nothing important.
Are they kidding? Are they dodging? I would expect more from them, perhaps a better trained receptionist.
Again I laughed as I hung up and thought implosion.

Posted by: CJensen on January 7, 2005 11:46 PM
32. FLIP FLOP ROSSI

The sanctity of the election was just fine when I was ahead...even by a mere 42....remember my words then? "Concede Chris"! And "Tied...Hah!". Now that I'm behind, I will not accept any suggestion that I concede, but will say the race is too close to know who won. Please don't see this as a flip-flop.

Wait, another legal recount and I might be behind? No worries, I've got the PR machine going full blast proving that if I lose it's not because I got fewer votes, it's because of fraud, stealing, cheating and errors! Thanks all for helping with our PR effort. When I get in front of the cameras, I won't say fraud, stealing, cheating -- I'll leave that to the rest of you. I'll come up with a catchy line (every vote should have a voter). Please don't see this as a flip-flop.

Don't worry that I said earlier we shouldn't change the rules, now we must change the rules completely, totally and unequivocally -- we need the mother of rule changing...a new election! Please don't see THIS as a flip-flop.

Of course, you know me as an honest broker....I mean agent. And a legitimate outsider....I mean long term influential house senator who is solely responsible for our entire state's budget process. SHHH..these are not flip-flops either!

In the end, we must fight for voters -- disenfranchised voters around the world (please don't confuse my earlier comments saying only voters who can follow directions should have their votes count ...that was when I was ahead...and again, this is no FLIP-FLOP)...

Thank you and let the people vote again...and this time I won't contest if I win -- but be prepared for a flip-flop and more challenges if fraud, stealing, cheating takes hold again and makes me a two-time loser.

Posted by: Scared for USA on January 8, 2005 07:26 AM
33. I think that mistakes and errors are the wrong way to go here. Unless Rossi can show systemic fraud, I cannot believe that any court will order a revote. Mistakes and errors happen, always have and always will. We should, of course, seek to minimize them, but in a race this close, you will always be able to find enough errors and mistakes to question the results. For example, in 2000, it would have been fairly easy to find 600 mistakes or errors in Florida. With mistakes and errors as the basis for seeking a revote, Rossi is doomed to failure.

Posted by: SoloD on January 8, 2005 08:04 AM
34. I was listening to the radio yesterday (KVI570)and heard a report of an audit of the King County Elections Board by Sam Reed's office in 2002.

The results of that audit should be all that the Rossi campaign needs to contest the election.

My hope is that it will also sink Ron Sims in this next election as well. He needs to go!

Posted by: jaybo on January 8, 2005 08:09 AM
35. MS: The Dems won because of all those "voting machines" in King County, huh?

No, I'm not going to let you forget that. You are utterly unfamiliar with the electoral process in the State of Washington, and even when your misconceptions are corrected in simple language, you pigheadedly cling to them when you think it benefits your party (of course, once a misconception has been corrected, restating it is technically known as "lying").

Forgive us if we decline to take advice from the likes of you.

Posted by: ScottM on January 8, 2005 09:04 AM
36. Scared for USA (or may I call you Christine?):

Your comments stink of desperation.

Not that I blame you for being desperate. If I saw my elaborate criminal conspiracy being slowly but steadily dragged into the light, I'd be scared too.

Posted by: ScottM on January 8, 2005 09:09 AM
37. ScottM:

Criminal conspiracy? Your hyberbole belies the problems with extreme beliefs.

I'd bet anything you subscribe to the typical right-wing belief that any judge that rules against their liking is "activist" while those that support their view is "upholding the law".

So, all, be ready for the regulars here to claim Rossi was robbed by "activist" judges imposing their personal views above the people's interest. The good thing is most people see through that "if it's not my way, i'll defame and demonize everyone on the other side" approach. It has wbeen used by the repbulicans (Rush is all the time king) so many times...it will be tried again.

It's as sure as Rossi was to file a suit because he lost.

Posted by: Scared for USA on January 8, 2005 09:21 AM
38. Scared: "I'd bet anything you subscribe to the typical right-wing belief that any judge that rules against their liking is "activist" while those that support their view is "upholding the law"."

You'd lose, as I suspect you know, since you don't bother to cite a single instance where I have said anything of the sort.

But I know that truth doesn't matter to you. All that matters to you is power, and you are willing to do whatever it takes to get it.

Posted by: ScottM on January 8, 2005 10:07 AM
39. And what are you so "scared" of, anyway? We're not asking for the election to be awarded to Rossi. We're asking for a new vote because the previous vote was so badly tainted.

Surely you are not denying that the previous election was badly tainted? Or is an election only tainted when a Republican wins by 130,000 votes, not when a Democrat "wins" by 130--on the third try, when legal standards were loosened for King County alone, and with the legitimacy of hundreds of ballots (largely from King County) in question?

Aren't you on the side that always wants the people's will to triumph? Or is that just another Democrat lie? (Don't bother; it's a rhetorical question.)

Since it is impossible, given the indefensible incompetence (at best) with which this election was conducted, to know what the people's will was, shouldn't the party which claims to represent Democracy be all in favor of a revote? Or should Gregoire be inaugurated anyway, in spite of the fact that there is every reason to think that the voters might have voted for Rossi?

Why do you call yourselves "Democrats" anyway? Post-modern irony?

Posted by: ScottM on January 8, 2005 10:25 AM
40. Republican Neo-Crook posturing is what it is and will be forever,Amen. Sometimes the people are fooled but some times they are not. I am going to do some research on the Indian tribe here in WA that was cheated out of Millions by some Neo-Crook buddies of GWB. The moralistic posturing looks empty when the behind the scenes activities and antics of these "men who speak with forked tongues" are highlighted. Keep up the great comments Scared for USA!

Posted by: headless lucy on January 8, 2005 10:51 AM
41. Scared (that the USA will throw off yoke of liberalism): You, yourself, are expressing "extreme" leftist beliefs, and every time you use the words "right wing" I consider it a compliment, and not a pejorative.

To be honest not all Democrats are "extreme left wing," and not all Republicans are "extreme right wing." While you may (or may not) believe that all Republicans are extreme right wing (oh, that it were so) that is not the case.

Perhaps there is a point to the right that even I would say "that's too extreme," but from my perspective the Democratic Party has moved greatly to the extreme left over the last few years. The more to the left a government moves, the less freedom the people have, and the more irrational the government becomes in its oppression. This is just my opinion, based on what I have read and observed over the years. You still have the right to disagree, and we both have the right to not even to listen to each other if we so choose.

It is indeed a sobering decision to contest this election in a court of law, and I support Rossi in exercising his right to do so under Washington State, and Federal law.

Posted by: JG on January 8, 2005 10:51 AM
42. I saw a very good comment here. If the republican looser looses again, he will scream and bawl and demand yet another re-vote. Just how many more re-votes will we have to give this 50 time looser?

Get over it, Move On.

The Republicans lost

The Democrats won

Live with it.

After all, when mr. bush committed mass voter fraud in florida, you republicans told us to live with it and get over it. So now, you republicans live with it as well. And no, there has been NO VOTER FRAUD in Washington State.

Posted by: Magnum Serpentine on January 8, 2005 01:44 PM
43. MS, if there was such massive Republican fraud, why didn't Gore contest the Florida election?

You can't claim that it was out of a desire to "move on," since Gore refused to concede and wished to keep counting until his people "found" enough votes to give him the election. Hmmmm...now that reminds me of someone....

The fact is that Gore had no evidence that he wished to have tested in court. Rossi is perfectly willing to have his evidence tested in court. Kind of tells you something, doesn't it?

And to say there was "no voter fraud" in Washington State is simply a lie. You can't have a statewide election without some fraud.

And since we know that ballots were cast on behalf of dead people, we can even point to specific instances of fraud. So why in God's name would you say that there was "no voter fraud"? Can't you even make up a plausible lie?

Posted by: ScottM on January 8, 2005 01:59 PM
44. Headless Lucy, Magnum Serpentine, Scared for USA,
et al,


I am not here to debate you. This is not a
sophomore debate class. This is the real world
of politics. In the real world there is a real
way to keep score: who wins the allegiance of
the voters.

As it stands right now, we are winning, and you
are losing: 60% of Washingtonians want a new
election, while thirty-something percent don't
want a new election. [One the national level
I would point out the GOP controls the White
House, the Senate, the Congress, the majority
of governorships, the majority of state
legislators, and have appointed majorities on
the Supreme Court, the Appellate courts, and
the District courts.] Everyday we are uncovering
more illegal votes, more votes by felons, more
double votes, and more incompetence by King
and other counties. In the last three weeks we
have been gaining support, and your side has been
losing support. The flow of news suggests we
will continue to widen our margin.

The question is what you, or the electorate will
do about it. One option is for the Democrats to
yield to the will of the people. Another is for
them to attempt to ride it out. If they do, One
option for the people is to recall every Democrat who votes
to deny them a revote. Another option is for the
electorate to vote out those Democrats in two
and four years. Another option for the electorate
is to be apathetic and forget what has
transpired over the next two years.

Like the stock market, each Democratic legislator
will have balance fear and greed before he bets
his political career.

Were talking past each other. I'm talking about
instilling fear. You are acting out of greed.

Pigs get fat, while hogs get slaughtered. I think
your side has grossly overreached.


Posted by: Bob on January 8, 2005 10:36 PM
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