Friday's Seattle Times investigates the curious phenomenon of votes cast by dead people "Voting by dead people isn't always a scam". [perhaps not always, but it very frequently is -- Ed.]
The article mentions the two cases of post-mortem voting that were, uh, unearthed by alert Sound Politics readers -- Anne M. Witte and Charles H. Kinnune.
Florence Kinnune, whose 71-year-old husband, Charles, died in September, said she wrote the word "deceased" on his absentee ballot envelope and returned it to the county. He was credited with votingIf we believe Mrs. Kinnune, then why in the world would King County credit her late husband with voting? [Ask follow-up questions, newspeople, follow-up questions -- Ed.] I also notice that in the Kinnunes' precinct, ISS 05-546, there were 225 ballots counted and 224 voters credited with voting. If Mr. Kinnune is one of the 224, was his ballot counted in the 225? If so, for whom? If his ballot was not counted in the 225, then the number of unexplained voterless ballots for the precinct increases from 1 to 2. Oops.
Another line in the story that calls out for follow-up questions:
The slow and cumbersome process of removing the deceased from voter rolls opens a window for mistakes.Yes, but how slow is the process and why? I've found so many examples of the dearly departed who are still registered years after their deaths that I've stopped counting. I also keep getting e-mails from readers who report receiving absentee ballots for deceased relatives and former homeowners for years, despite attempts to inform the county. See the extended entry for one such story.
The Seattle Post-Intelligencer also has an article about voting from beyond the grave, listing some examples not mentioned in the Times article.
Doris McFarland said she voted for her husband, Earl, who died Oct. 7.Well, Mrs. McFarland, we can't just throw that ballot out, but you have given us one of the reasons why we need to throw the whole election out."I called up the elections board and said, 'Can I do it because he wanted me to vote?' " the Duvall woman said. "The person ... said, 'Well, who would know?' I said, 'I don't want to do anything that is wrong.' "
Huennekens disputed that election workers would say such a thing.
McFarland said she signed her husband's name and mailed in his ballot, along with her own. She said she had power of attorney for her 92-year-old husband, who was blind.
"If I did something that wasn't right, you can just throw that ballot out," McFarland said last night.
Reader Martin Ringhofer posted a comment in an earlier entry that is worth repeating:
My mom died on 09/14/1996. My dad on 06/13/1997. They have missed two presidential elecions and all in between. They voted absentee. I was the executor of their estate.Martin's late parents, Margarete and Ludwig Ringhofer are still on the books as "Active" voters. No ballot has been cast in either name since they passed away. Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at January 07, 2005 12:43 AM | Email ThisTo date, I keep getting their absentee ballots mailed to them at my physical address, which was not theirs. I have contacted the King County Elections and Records Department in the past asking they please take my parents OFF from the voters list -- but gave up as it was obvious they are determined to have dead people vote.
I still get the abstentee ballots.
I have saved them all unopened to prove they have not voted. Kept the ballots out of curiosity how long this would keep on. Now, I understand more.
The fact that they are dead, should have been sufficient reason to stop sending the absentee ballots, 8 and 7 years ago.
The fact I have asked they stop sending the ansentee ballots should have been enough.
The fact they have not voted in not one but two Presidential elections should have stopped the ballots from coming.
It is also unbelievable their ballots are coming to my physical address -- which was never theirs -- eight years after they died.
How many dead voters were sent their absentee ballots at a relative at another address the dead people lived and for how long has this been going on?
How many relatives or strangers have voted for these dead people?
What kind of a society allows this ridiculous mess to happen and then allow such a fraudulent election to stand?
IT WAS AN ACCIDENT!!!!
Then it's ok, huh?
"The state Health Department sends out lists of the deceased 'every two to three months,' not every month as the law states, said Jennifer Tebaldi, who helps oversee the department's vital statistics operation.
"'We have an informal understanding with the counties that we send it when there's a bulk of information to send.'"
Wow - all you need is an "informal understanding" to ignore the law. (I thought that was called "conspiracy"?)
Posted by: Patrick on January 7, 2005 06:08 AMDoes Kiev County just automatically mail absentees whether the voter asks for it or not?
Posted by: jeanneB on January 7, 2005 06:32 AM"I called up the elections board and said, 'Can I do it because he wanted me to vote?' " the Duvall woman said. "The person ... said, 'Well, who would know?' I said, 'I don't want to do anything that is wrong.' "
Posted by: Dan on January 7, 2005 06:37 AMThank you...that was going to be my point. I don't care at all who they voted for. If they voted for Rossi and they're dead it's still an illegal vote and shows voter fraud. It's WRONG!
Posted by: megs on January 7, 2005 07:38 AMAnd gee, let's just accept the lame notion that AAALLLL the mistakes listed above are just "accidents". Listen up, King Co. auditors: THAT DOESN'T MAKE THEM LEGAL VOTES!!!!!!
Posted by: Michele on January 7, 2005 09:09 AM"The slow and cumbersome process of removing the deceased from voter rolls opens a window for mistakes."
Mistakes? Mistakes? Oh please.
It opens a window for fraudulent voting, not "mistakes".
Maybe the Times should update it's article to read:
"The slow and cumbersome process of removing the deceased from voter rolls opens a WIDOW for mistakes." ;-)
EricR
Posted by: EricR on January 7, 2005 09:37 AMThe word "accident" has many dictionary definitions:
One of my favorites is:
"an unfortunate event resulting from carelessness, unawareness, ignorance or unavoidable causes" HMMMMMMMMMM???
or
"AN UNEXPECTED HAPPENING CAUSING LOSS OR INJURY WHICH IS NOT DUE TO ANY FAULT OR MISCONDUCT ON THE PART OF THE PERSON INJURED BUT FROM THE CONSEQUENCES OF WHICH HE MAY BE ENTITLED TO SOME LEGAL RELIEF" VEEEERRRRRY INTERESTING!!!!
When I first heard about Bob Holmgren and his dead wife, I had no problem believing that a Republican would cheat. We aren't as bad as the other side, but we're not saints.
However, here's Holmgren's quote from the P-I:
"'Her vote was important to her,' Holmgren said. 'She was very strongly against Governor-elect Gregoire.'"
"Governor-elect Gregoire"? It's not conclusive evidence, of course, but the guy sure talks like a Democrat.
Posted by: ScottM on January 7, 2005 10:27 AMWhen talking about Zemko, nothing. He uses a quote stating "I guess I should fix it".
Double standards anyone? I'm not advocating the prosecution or not, just something i noticed. Vote for Rossi, point of prosecution. Vote for CG, well, maybe we should fix it.
Posted by: BamaMan on January 7, 2005 10:41 AM
Looks like your realiabilty as an honest source has been shown to be non-existant.
Posted by: John on January 7, 2005 10:41 AMRepubs are not the ones making excuses for and minimizing fraud and sloppiness.
In fact, a devious person who commits voter fraud by casting their late spouse's ballot for one candidate, say Gregoire, and is caught, still has a motivation to cause the maximum amount of mischief. The way to do this would be to claim that the illegal ballot was cast for the other candidate, in this case, Rossi.
I'm not saying that this is what happened. I am saying that it is impossible to know how any particular ballot, illegal or otherwise, was cast.
Posted by: Stefan Sharkansky on January 7, 2005 10:46 AMHow did KC not catch it? By failing to follow the legal procedures to catch it, they disenfranchised one Democrat. Is that OK with you?
Posted by: Bostonian on January 7, 2005 10:58 AMOne time I was asked why they should stop send ballots to my mom and dad. I replied, "Because they can't vote where they are, nor can I get them their ballots." It was years ago and I had far more important things on my mind, so I can't remember exactly what they said, but I think it was something like: "That's not a reason why we should STOP sending your parents their ballots." Their response seemed RIDICULOUS, and I never appreciated UNTIL NOW what exactly has been going on.
I don't know about you -- and it's not a pro-one candidate or the other -- but -- we deserve better then to allow the DEAD decide our elections, don't we?
...because one has admitted to breaking the law?
Posted by: South County on January 8, 2005 11:32 AMhttp://www.homeloansnationwide.com/
Nationwide Home Loans
Florida Home Loans
Folks, because my policy is that if you come to me for help (time constraints permitting), I'll help - doubly so if the blogosphere can benefit and triply so if its for democracy's benefit - I think you might be interested in the below squabble between Martin Ringhofer and Larry Phillips, the latter of which recieved Martin's statement.
Also, I-343 used to be I-1860. The Secretary of State today tasked the Attorney General's Office with drafting the ballot title.
Best read from the e-mail after the dividing line!
From: martinringhofer AT aol DOT com
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 5:58 PM
To: Larry Phillips
Cc: Josef Kunzler
Subject: Re: Ringhofer Dead Parents Voter Registration ~ Initiative 343
Dear Mr. Phillips.
Mr. Kunzler was kind enough to forward your email to me. As my family was away for 4th of July Independence Day festivities, I have not yet managed to catch up with all phone and email messages I've received while away.
Thank you for the offer to help with the situation concerning absentee ballots being mailed to DEAD VOTERS, or to someone for DEAD VOTERS. As we have learned in the past few months, this is a common occurrence.
Yes, of course, my dead parents should not have received voter registration cards AGAIN in the mail, as they have both been dead for nearly nine years. In addition, they have NOT voted since they died, as I have not had a forwarding address for them beyond their grave site at Abbey View Cemetery in Snohomish County. As if that is not sufficient reason for King County NOT to send my dead parents new voter registration cards, my parents NEVER lived at my address, at 7012 - 24th NW., Seattle, WA 98117. Further, they have missed every local and several presidential elections since they died, which by itself should have resulted in being dropped off from the voter registration list.
It is also my understanding that by RCW and Election Rules established by the Secretary of State, the county election offices as supposed to receive death notices on a quarterly basis, though it is unknown whether in fact such notices are sent to the county election offices, received, or acted on by election offices in our 39 counties.
I kindly request you to provide to me an explanation as to how it is possible for me to be receiving registration cards for my dead parents under these circumstances. Furthermore, I would like to understand exactly what King County has done, is required to do, or any explanation as to exactly what it will do to ensure that EVERY DEAD VOTER is removed from receiving registration forms, and what King County has done or will do to make sure we don't have any more DEAD people voting.
I, and every citizen in this county and state, expect the ELECTION OFFICE to make sure DEAD PEOPLE are removed. For starters, the County Election and Records is the very office responsible for keeping accurate birth and death certificates. It cannot be left to those whose dead relatives or family members continue to receive voter registration cards for the dead -- to file anything to have them removed
as voters once they have died. It is a function of government to ensure that its records are accurate, and that death notices and certificates already available to you from the state and your own records be the basis and foundation for removing dead people from receiving voter registration cards which can too easily be intercepted and used by anyone, as has been proved to be the case in our most recent general election.
Please be kind enough to provide me with a written response in regard to the points I raise, to help me understand why I even have to face this situation when my parents have been DEAD going on nine years, NEVER lived with me at my address, have not voted in nine years, etc. Please do me a favor and do NOT deflect by ignoring my questions and blowing off what obviously is a ridiculous situation which must be fixed.
One sure way to make sure that no-one is registered to vote who is not ALIVE and a US Citizen is your support of an Initiative to the Legislature No. 343. It requires nothing more then is already required by our US Constitution and our State Constitution. Besides looking forward to your personal response, I would like to offer you this opportunity --
the first offered to ANYONE -- to review the text of I-343 and give it your endorsement and support. If you should NOT support it, I certainly would solicit the reason(s) you have for not supporting something already required of you as County Council member, having sworn to uphold the laws of this nation and our state in particular.
Again, thank you for your email to Mr. Kunzler, and I look forward to your response.
Martin D Ringhofer
Martinringhofer AT aol DOT com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Phillips, Larry
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 5:27 PM
To: Josef Kunzler
Cc: Logan, Dean; Huff Menees, Sherril; Irons, David; Pelz, Dwight; Constantine, Dow; Edmonds, Carolyn; Hague, Jane; Hammond, Steve; Lambert, Kathy; Dunn, Reagan; Ferguson, Bob; Gossett, Larry; Patterson, Julia; Alvine, Michael; James Reid [Chief of Staff of the King County Independent Task Force on Elections]; von Reichbauer, Pete
Subject: Ringhofer Voter Registration
Dear Mr. Kunzler,
Thank you for writing regarding Martin Ringhofer's deceased parents who recently received voter registration cards in the mail.
On July 6th one of my aides left a phone message for Mr. Ringhofer at (XXX) XXX-XXXX, offering to send him "Request for Voter Registration Cancellation" cards that need to be filled out in order to remove his parents from the voter rolls. If you know of a better way to reach Mr. Ringhofer, either via mail, email or phone, we would appreciate it if you could let my office know. My contact information is listed below.
In order for deceased voters to be removed from voting lists, King County must be informed of the voter's death, and receive an official notice such as a death certificate, a published obituary, or a signed "Request for Voter Registration Cancellation" card, which the County provides upon request.
If you know of others who have voter registration questions or issues, I encourage you to urge them to call (206) 296-VOTE to talk to someone who can help them individually. Information is also available online at the King County Elections website: http://www.metrokc.gov/elections/
Sincerely,
Larry Phillips, Chair
Metropolitan King County Council
King County Courthouse
516 Third Avenue, Room 1200
Seattle, WA 98104-3272
206.296.1004
larry DOT phillips AT metrokc DOT gov
LP:jc
BTW, the e-mail Councilor Phillips got was a copy of THIS statement, word-for word. Again, this blog's all about public service and getting real democratic reform for a truly clean 2 November 2005 general statewide election.