January 06, 2005
Nationally, Democrats Call For Recounts, Ballot Reform
The hypocrisy of the Democrat media machine is particularly galling today, with crocodile tears shed for John Kerry’s long-dead White House dream the focus of coverage – even as their apparatchiks defiantly breached every Congressional protocol in (what they presumed to be) a heroic show of defiance. In reality, however, their rhetoric only bolsters the legitimate outcry in our (the “other”) Washington – where the revote campaign continues to pick up momentum.
It seems that everywhere but Washington State there are calls by Democrat leaders for “minimum standards in the voting method throughout the United States” and “an auditable paper trail for electronic and all voting machines,” – or at least, so go reports in left-leaning media such as the Berkeley Daily Planet - and even from Michael Moore’s inter-galactic headquarters, where John Kerry is quoted as saying:
"It's critical that we investigate and understand any and every voting irregularity anywhere in our country, not because it would change the outcome of the election but because Americans have to believe that their votes are counted in our democracy."
In California, 150 election reform protesters marched to the district offices of House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, where according to an Associated Press report
, protesters stated "If my vote counts, count my vote." Many activists blamed mainstream media for shifting Americans' attention from election problems to less substantive issues. "Even the Ukraine is getting a new election, but we're not because our government isn't interested, and the media has put our attention on the NBA brawls," said Mill Valley, Calif., resident Ted Newman, 47.
Sounds kind of familiar, right?
One website, run by an anonymous Democrat activist, opines:
“Who am I? A private citizen concerned about:
1. the reliability of our election system,
2. the legitimacy of the 2004 election ,
3. the legitimacy of all elections to come.
That's it. There's nothing more to say.”
No, say it
Of course, we have Democrats like that in Washington State too. They are called ROSSI VOTERS, “Dinocrats” – and they support efforts which are signing up thousands at ReVote Washington – as are many Gregoire voters as well according to the sentiments expressed in this King5 News poll (free registration required).
Still we wait, however, for news stories that connect the dynamic irony between Democrat party outcries for "count every vote" and "fairness" nationally - and their stone, cold silence in our state. Is the Wall Street Journal our only hope? How 'bout a New York Post - Western Edition? Anything is better than the sycophancy of our embedded Seattle media.
Finally, you have to let yourself chuckle once in a while, check out "The Backbone Cabinet" (spineless, more like) website, and get a hearty laugh out of the left wing’s notion of what a U.S. Presidential Cabinet would look like. My favorite hoot has Dennis Kucinich for ‘Secretary of Peace’ – followed by Michael Dukakis for ‘Secretary of Transportation.’ Those funny Democrats, they still have poor old Michael Dukakis commuting in that tank of his...
Posted by P. Scott Cummins at January 06, 2005
05:16 PM | Email This
Consider the similarities
between what the Dems claimed happened in Ohio, and what has happened here. There's enough irony here to power 8 western states.
2. This election process should scare all of us, not just those living this nightmare in Washington or Ohio. In my blog: http://firewolfsblog.blogspot.com/2005/01/washington-vs-ohio.html
I hope for the best, but fear the worse. It's alarming how the dems can care about one area (ohio) but could care less about another (washington). Are we to conclude that Federal Politics trumps State? Perhaps it's better to rule the country with an iron fist rather than some west coast republic?
3. earlier this week i went to the local stations (king and kiro) online web polls and voted for a revote and the results were in the 70s for a revote. don't see those polls or the results anymore on either. isn't it amazing how quickly the story vanished?
Of course it's hypocrisy...neither side has a patent on the hypocrisy here!
Dems and Reps will say whatever they need to get their person in.
Any R who says otherwise is disingenous; any D is equally disingenous.
It would be a better world in all senses if folks on both sides would just admit it. The more proof like this, and equal proof on horses***, cointinues to show both sides' hyprocrisy but unwilling to admit their own while highlithting the others'.
FedUp/Bostonian: I know, somehow this makes me a bleeding heart liberal. I still can't figure out your logic as you paint me such....
I don't think you're a bleeding heart liberal, necessarily, but I fail to see how you can say that the Republicans have been hypocritical.
Even when Rossi was in the lead, the GOP were pointing out all the inaccuracies and problems and there was already talk of a reelection. As Carlson said at one point, the party was taking account of everything going on in case the election results changed. Rossi couldn't exactly bring up a challenge when he hadn't yet been harmed.
The Dems didn't follow the rules and King County changed the rules midstream.
Again I just can't see how the two party points are comparable. Logic says that the Republican party has the stronger case. To me, failing to admit this makes you sound partisan. Even while you rail on both parties, you fail to admit which side has the stronger case...in thise case it is clearly the GOP.
Tom, why do you bother keep showing up here calling us all names? Is there a reason for that?
I call you a Leftist because you want us all to have better personalities, because you've claimed to know our motives, and because you seem to regard motives as being far more important than whether the law was followed.
But I wouldn't call you a bleeding heart, because that suggests actually giving a damn about something.
7. Great burn Bostonian!!
I have noticed that tom seems to focus more on the everybody's right or everybody's wrong, straddle the fence kind of mumblypuke! He must also belong to the Unitarian Universalist movement that believes all religions are 100% right.
I'd rather talk with a died in the whole bleeding heart because at least they do believe in something. Poor pathetic tom. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.
Bostonian: What name did I call you?
Megs: When Rossi had the lead, he called on Gregoire to concede. And virtually every poster on this site agreed with him.
To suggest the opponent concede, while holding an extremely thin lead, suggests you are fine and dandy with the election system and results.
Now, of course, he refuses to concede himself and virtually all the posters here agree with that.
The GOP only talked about a revote when it became clear Gregoire was likely to take the lead. Until then, they were dandy happy to accept the results of the first and second counts.
I'm impressed that you are back to "don't change the rules". The Rossi campaign has moved on from that...taking on the previous-Gregoire position (too many disenfrancished voters) -- which by the way is also different than the original R position which was only allow votes to count that were cast by people who could read the directions and follow the rules.
The switches and hypocrisy is obvious and huge.
The same is true for the Ds. They claimed it's too close..until they have the lead - then it's fine and dandy that they call on Rossi to concede.
The only ones unwilling to admit the obvious, complete dual hyprocrisy are those who are interested only in getting their guy/gal in.
Somehow taking this position causes Bostonian to assume I don't care about anything.
Previously, you called me names for my view. Now you say I don't care about anything. You are wrong. I care a TON about the law, the process and consistency. Neither the Rs nor the Ds (nor the posters here or in horses***) have demonstrated either.
instead they have demonstrated, time and time again, the ability to twist partial statistics to fit the argument of the day to make sure their person gets sworn in.
My letter to Michael Moore:
Dear Mr. Moore:
"Seems a lot of people didn't get to vote. And those who did, thousands of theirs weren't counted."
Good for you! You interest in our American Democracy is dogged and exemplary. I would like to ask you for assistance in publicizing another very questionable election - could you take a look at, and notify your readers of, what is going on with the Gubernatorial election here in Washington State?
In case you haven't heard, the Republican candidate, Dino Rossi, won the the election by 261 votes out of almost 3 million votes cast. That triggered an automatic machine recount that Rossi also won by 42 votes. At that point the Democratic party and it's candidate, Christine Gregoire, paid over $700,000 to have a hand recount.
This recount was financed in part by a $250,000 donation by John Kerry, from the $15 million that he kept 'in the bank', and did not spend on his attempt to get elected. I understand that you donated to Senator Kerry's Campaign for President, so you, in a small way, helped finance the hand recount here in Washington.
After the recount, Gregoire came out on top by a mere 10 votes. Then 700-some ballots, which were found in an un-secured warehouse weeks after the election, were allowed to be counted and Gregoire ended up with a 129-vote margin of victory.
All along the way we residents of Washington uncovered issues during the counts and recounts. King County (the Democratic stronghold that includes the city of Seattle) found ballots, in unsecured locations, in bins that had not been emptied on election day, etc., on nine different occasions, ballots that in the end totaled almost 10,000 votes. In addition, King County changed the canvassing rules for counting ballots several times during this whole process.
The website www.soundpolitics.com has been keeping track of all the irregularities, be they from lack of accountability, incompetence, or fraud. Currently in King County there are almost 3,500 more ballots that have been counted than voters. There have been multiple examples across the state of people who died before the primaries who somehow voted in the election. There are signed affadavits that several hundred provisional ballots were put into the vote counting machines on election day before it was validated that the person was an eligible voter - they should have been put in envelopes to be validated, and cannot now be separated. There are about 1,700 more provisional ballots that were put into the envelopes and counted, but never validated.
In one precinct in downtown Seattle (1823), at least 300 people who voted gave both their mailing address and their voter registration address as the King County Elections Commission office! This precinct also had 71 more ballots cast than people who voted. There are many instances being found of people who voted twice in different precincts.
Many of this state's military personnel serving overseas did not receive their absentee ballots until on or after the election. This is a clear violation of the law, and I know how much you care for our military.
These problems are not only in King County, however. Currently there are at least 8,400 more votes than voters across all 39 counties. The problems with the provisional, absentee, and military ballots are being found all over the state as well, although the spotlight is on King County since it is the largest, and during each count and recount King County was the last county to certify its vote totals.
All of these problems have been documented and verified by the Washington State Republican Party in an election that was decided by 261, then 42, then 10, then 129 votes.
As you write so eloquently: "Forget about partisan politics for a moment and ask yourself if there is a more basic right, in a democracy, than the right of the people to vote AND have ALL their votes counted."
Recent on-line polls have shown that around 70 percent of the people in Washington favor a re-vote, and about 65 percent think that Dino Rossi won or do not find Christine Gregoire's certification to be legitimate.
You, Michael Moore, as a person who cares so much about Democracy, who wishes to put aside partisan politics, and who helped finance the hand recount (through your donation to John Kerry), are in a unique position to help the citizens of Washington.
I trust that your call for open, fair, transparent, and accountable elections will find traction here in Washington. I look forward to you informing your readership of this travesty of Democracy. If you want elections were all voters who have the right to vote actually have their vote counted, you can help start the clean-up here in Washington State! PLEASE HELP US!!!
Seattle, WA 98119
10. Larry, beautiful. Love it. But, when pigs fly...
The Democrats have extensive first hand, hands-on experience with employing various techniques to steal elections. Dead people. Illegal immigrants. Felons. People voting multiple times in multiple places. The Democrats doing this first came into public consciousness in 1960 in Chicago and Texas, when Kennedy stole the presidential election. With 20-20 hindsight, can anyone say with a straight face that it started then and there? Lyndon Johnson had a long and storied Congressional career. He didn't first learn how to steal Texas in 1960. He'd been doing it long before that. His acension to the Senate from the House in 1948 was amidst the confusion, smoke, and dust of irregular voting practice in the Hispanic community in South Texas, and he won it by a mere 87 vote margin. Johnson tapped into that same cess pool in 1960 to swing Texas for Kennedy-Johnson. And it was also, by the way, 1948 when on election Tuesday Dewey beat Truman, except that when everybody woke up Wednesday morning they learned that was no longer the case. The Democrats have a time-honored tradition of stealing elections, and have taken the practice, and refined it to an art form. And that's why in Florida 2000, and Ohio 2004 they can make the bold assertions that the election system is flawed. They know all the ins and outs, because they invented them. They know how easy it is. And that, ironically, is why they can say with cynical aplomb that the system is broke.
But then look at how sanctimoneous they get when they get caught with their hands in the cookie jar. It's pathological.
And, by the way, this isn't partisan. I'm not a Republican. I'm a registered independent.
Mr. Cynical: Given your comments about me, perhaps you think we are better off having such a divided US Congress...and populace. With so many people being so 100% sure they are right (and unwilling to compromise), I think we are headed in a worse direction.
Even hard core Rs (Cheney himself!) have bemoaned this as have hard core Ds (Foley himself!
But the partisans here and on horses*** love to claim sole moral certititude and rightness....bah humbug..it's such intractable positions that create deadlock and division.
Perhaps that is a better reality for you...it's not for me.
If you don't care for the tone -- GET LOST!
14. Dino Rossi is a well-funded Rep. who lost to a Dem. woman who didn't even have the support of the Seattle Times. Is this another famous Rep. mandate? Sure smells like it.This is what we do to Rep. mandates in this state!
Clearly, you are.
Why don't you just..."Move On"?
16. May I repeat....people without heads have no brains!
17. Would you still be favoring a re-vote if Rossi had won the recount? Why wasn't there any calls for a revote a month ago?
I know, but I didn't want to call him a hypocrite on this issue until he actually DID take both sides! ;)
And thinking further, it'd be a great way for him to clean up his image and make a point. But I'm not counting on monkeys flying out of my butt.
lucy...that's quite a trollish non-point. At least try to lend some intelligence to the debate.
Tom: You are incorrect in many points...Rossi was never happy with the results and while still in the lead talked about adding election reform to his platform. The call for CG to concede came after 2 counts under (sort of) the same level of review...the sort of comes from King County even then counting votes that they probably shouldn't have AND with the Democrats canvassing for signatures, which now may be fraudulent.
There's nothing hypocritical about, after a third vote where the rules were completely changed, trying to play by the new rules. The GOP has all along only tried to uphold the current rules that were in place. Now, they are working with new rules passed down from the court.
The court allowed new votes not originally counted, which is clearly against the law, but now a court mandate. Fine. We'll work with those now.
Either way, there's no hypocrasy in continually trying to follow the rules...but it's kind of hard to do this when the target keeps moving.
Again, I do not know how someone can intellectually honestly say that the D's and R's are on the same level here. The Dem's are continuously trying to CHANGE the rules to suit their purpose. The R's are trying to make sure the rules are upheld and followed.
You still haven't convinced me of any hypocrasy. I still don't think that voters who didn't follow the rules should have their votes counted. If they can't do it correctly it's their own fault (and I'd include myself in there too if I did it wrong). But since the rules were changed (through NO fault of the GOP) we're now looking to the new rules and trying to have those consistently applied.
Is that too much to ask?
There were R's calling for a revote a month ago. On Carlson's and Kirby's show, including former Sec of State Munroe. I think everyone was hoping it wouldn't come to that, but now it has...not because the 'wrong' person won, but because the process has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt to be so thoroughly flawed and potentially fraudulent that there's no way to clearly say who won.
Why do we have to keep answering the same question?
What was Rossi supposed to do a month ago? Say "Christine Gregoire benefited from thousands of illegally-cast ballots, and I STILL WON!" How sh!tty would that sound?
Rossi couldn't start legal action until he had been harmed. If you see someone trying to steal your bike, but they can't and run off, are the police going to go after them for stealing your bike?
P Scott Cummins,
The good book: Please read, particularly if you are a Democrat who can read, John Fund's 'Stealing Elections'. It confirms and affirms almost every insinuation or intimation in this forum about the liberal propensity to larceny.
As the other Good Book says, Thou Shalt Not Steal, a lesson unlearned by liberals at least since Lyndon's landslide of '48 or since Kennedy's theft of the mausoleum vote in 1960, the dirtiest Dirty Trick in Tricky Dick Nixon's career.
Also read a book by Dale Shippers (?), who worked for Robert Kennedy's Justice Dept years ago and as majority counsel during Clinton's impeachment. An appendix to Shippers' book has photostats of Clinton-Gore memoranda about expediting the registrations of illegal-alien felons, some of whom probably voted for Gregoire.
Deadwood....sorry, I feel that reasoned argument in the face of righteous indignation is not only important...it is necessary for a democracy to work.
Extreme one-sided views (eg. "we're 100% right and moral, the other side is 100% wroing and are cheaters/stealers/etc", on either side, unchecked is in no society's interest...
25. Extreme one-sided views (eg. "we're 100% right and moral, the other side is 100% wroing and are cheaters/stealers/etc", on either side, unchecked is in no society's interest...
Perhaps so. On the other hand, you seem to always want to make sure that there is equal blame on both sides. This is not in society's interest, because it will rarely be reflective of the true situation.
Your "both sides do this; both must be punished" pleas, repeated ad nauseum, are grating on those of us who think there is some real work to be done here.
26. Save us all, Tom, please save us.
27. The claim that "both sides do it" is a recipe for inaction. It is a support for the status quo made because the claimant ultimately has no problem with the status quo, and isn't really all that interested in any change.
I posted earlier today on the Dem charade today:
We also got into it over at Protein Wisdom (fave humor site) in the comment section:
We keep on!
I'm getting a little dizzy from the circular arguments. I think some left leaning folks want us to think as convoluted as they do.
For further reference do the arguments go clockwise or counter-clockwise? (Rhetorical question) I would answer but then I would be branded a partisan (of course I am), which is still not a synonym for hypocrite, I think.
Playing the devil's advocate all the time might be fun for some, but I don't see as it accomplishes a whole lot. Get off the fence, and choose a side before it's too late.
Rossi is in the right (no pun intended), Gregoire is in the wrong. Simple enough?
30. You folks really need to get a grip. Rossi lost, get over it.
You republics crack me up. What, exactly, have you got against election reform? Won't allow you to intimidate? Won't allow you to impede the process?
Sorry, you're going to lose that as you'll lose the rossithon. We will have election reform despite your best efforts. Oh, and Sam Reed, he may be a republic, but he's at least honorable.
31. I am posting the updates and select comments on Drudge Retort, the lefty loony site. They hate me there but what fun I have toying with the hypocritical, profane, flaming left who call it their(sad) home. You have our support here in NW Florida!!!
Gotta admit, it's refreshing to have republicans like Reed. Though his reasonable approach leaves ultra right wingers upset...it does give hope that there are enough folks on the R side who aren't extreme. Wish there were equally reasonable Ds out there statewide...
For those who continue to mock me (and there are many) nearly half of the country didn't vote R..so how could it be correct to move toward the R extreme? Makes no sense...
Same when Ds win. Neither side wins by a lot...centrists rule -- no matter how much rhetoric the Deaniacs or Delayers spew...
33. Megs, my role is not to add intelligence to the debate, but to act as a devil's advocate/provocateur. I don't really detest Republicans. And when you dun me for hypocrisy at least spell the word correctly.
Have a nice day!!!
34. Sure Laura...Is your kool aid sugar free? Keep on sippin' dahlin. Your post is like your party, full of it....
The jig is up my friend. Cannot be lukewarm or you get spewed out of the mouth. Nice try on the "balance" thingie. Moveon.org with your life and do some yoga. Ohmmmmmmm.....
Sure headless. On your site YOU are still calling Bush's election illegitimate due to Ohio so a bit of the hypocrisy label is in order don't you think? I would say you are a bit more than you innocently claim in your post but that is typical of your side. Hide who you are and claim something else altogether.
Headless still rings true to us.
Nice try, enjoy your kool aid with Laura and maybe Tom. He has not decided yet.
Most ironic quote of the day...
"...nothing is more sacred than the integrity of the ballot box and if there is ANY possibility of fraud or incompetence, then it MUST be addressed. Because if we don't have the vote, what are we left with?"
I’ll state my politics right up front. I come from along line of died in the wool Decorates and I continue that proud tradition.
I can’t understand how the Repubs can claim "they changed the rules"! When? How? I haven’t seen anyone re-write the Election Code during this process. I did see the WA Supreme Court apply the law, sometimes in favor of the Repubs and sometimes in favor of the Dems. Sometimes you just KNOW that you interpretation of the law is right, and it turn out that you’re wrong because you didn’t understand the rule and how it should be applied (happens to me all the time in court). Doesn’t mean the rules were changed, just means that that your interpretation of the law was wrong.
The problem with the "re-vote" movement is that you can’t have a system where we just throw out an election and revote based on speculation, allegation and suspicion (no matter how compelling you might feel the allegations are). If there are grounds for a re-vote, then you have to prove it (no matter how strongly you believe it). It has to be established, in a court of law, where the allegations are subject to discovery, cross examination and thoughtful deliberation. Calling for a re-vote now (without going through the legal process) looks like an attempt to avoid having to prove your allegations.
I can in all say that no honest person, Dem or Repub wants a fraudulent election to stand. However, our position on the Dem side is that pulling down an election w/o proving that it is fraudulent is a mistake that leads to chaos in the electoral process. If, at the end of the day, you guys win in court, I will be right there with you in helping to rebuild the system.
Blah, blah, blah is all we can hear coming out of your post.....You are brainwashed to your thinking so telling you to actually READ the info would be pointless.
I guess you will tell me that the Florida Supreme Court was "applying" the law that SCOTUS overturned in 2000 also. I am also sure you think Kerry can still overcome the 118,000 in Ohio too. It is clear that new rules were put in play and that huge irregularities have been proven BUT again, we do not expect your kind to admit it and call for the right thing. It is all about counting until you get the result you want and then calling for the campfire unity sing, period.
hey Dan, I posted your quote on the libs site for the Moore worshipping crowd to ponder. Nice find!
Watch for the big man himself in orange at the rally Tuesday!
No need to be so hostile towards my post, because it wasn't intend to be mean spirited. I’m not any more "brainwashed" than you or the other contributors here. I've read most everything there is to read on this issue. I think your side has uncovered some facts that appear to support your position and if those facts can withstand rigorous examination and cross examination through the legal process, then you deserve your revote. My position is that what you ask for is extra-ordinary, and that the extra-ordinary step of a re-vote needs to be weighed and deliberated very carefully.
My position on the WA vote and the Ohio vote and the FLA 2000 vote are the same - if allegations and speculation of a fraudulent election are proven, the election should be overturned. But you got to prove it, in court, under oath, impartial jury.
Yellow Dog Dem:
In case you didn't notice, this is a BLOG. It's not a court of law. We are trading ideas and trying to communicate ideas in the absence of any real media coverage of this issue.
The revote, if one happens, will NOT be based on speculation, allegation, and suspicion. It will be based on the findings of all the professionals working overtime for Dino Rossi.
And you heard it here first - there will be plenty of reasons to have a revote after the Rossi Campaign presents the evidence and the discovery, examination and deliberation happens.
The Rossi Campaign is being quiet for a reason - they are giving all the major players (Ron Sims, Larry Phillips, and especially Sam Reed) enough rope to hang themselves.
The Rossi Campaign has evidence of fraud and electioneering by several individuals and groups. But they are not going to divulge this until the right time and place - a court of law!
So cool your jets against the common men (and women, of course) posting on this blog, who are trying to tie together all the loose ends of this frayed-knot election, okay?
All will be crystal clear soon enough. You might have to wait a little while for the fireworks - but when they happen, you'll sit back and enjoy the show, right??
43. Niceville: You from Niceville Florida? I love it there!
Many of the ideas presented for election reform have good intentions; however, there are two things that must be realized.
1.) Fraud will never be completely erased (though I do not accept the current state of affairs, and I do not have to choose sides: both sides are not innocent, -- nationally we must reduce fraud and the potential/opportunity for fraud).
2.) States should have a mechanism in place to recover from the situation where the margin of fraud is greater than the margin of victory. For all but the presidency, a mandatory re-vote solves this. This gives both sides the incentive not to commit fraud, because if the either side exposes the fraud, the other would assumedly lose in the re-vote due to the war waged in the court of public opinion. Sure, the dynamics will have changed from one vote to the next, but the best leader will be the one that can weather the storm.
Of course, in the case of the electoral votes, states do not have the time to revote, recount, reinvestigate, etc. before the results have to be certified. In this one situation, the electors could be split 50% - 50% between each party.
Of course, the democrats have wanted this for the last four years...but before any Republicans scream about this, do the math. If the margin of error/fraud is set at 1%, Bush would have actually picked up an elector in the 2000 election, losing half of FL but gaining half of OR, NM, IA, WI is a net pickup of a 1 (I'm not doing fractions). In 2004, Bush would have gained 2, losing half of IA but gaining half of WI. Even if you throw in Ohio for Sen. Boxer, Bush still wins the election.
However, it should never be about winning, it should be about a fair, representative (D), and legitimate (R) democracy.
I have Dino Rossi on my Pluck search and found this beauty by Eagle Scout Hans Zeiger....enjoy:
46. Niceville: have you seen my posts on horses***? Funny how'd I'd chide the Ds on their site given I'm one of them....
47. John Carlson was saying that Munroe's new-hope reforms for voting INCLUDED making referendums and initiatives more DIFFICULT. How the dems hate it when the people take government in their own hands - SINCE THE LEGISLATURES WON'T DO THE PEOPLE'S WORK. Did anyone else hear this? Is Ralph Munroe insane?
48. I don't believe in hypocrisy. I believe a person will always act in accordance with his/her most closely held beliefs. When I hear the rhetoric from the left about honest elections and counting every vote, I don't think "hypocrite"...I think, "liar."
49. "Orange"!!! You pathetic, deluded fools. Especially the gumbohead from, "Niceville".
50. Laura and all other dem doubters: Watch your backsides. Dino's comin' and he's takin' names and not letting you guys get away with your King county fraud. Don't buy those tickets to the Gregoireovich ball just yet.....
I work in a small medical office-about 20 employees. Today I got about 10 of those employees to sign the revote petition. One of these employees is a very loyal democrat who voted for Rossi. He lives in king county, has voted in the county for over 10 years-4 in the current precinct. I looked him up on seattletimes web site, he was not there. we looked him up on the king county web site under the heading- "Am I a registered voter?", his name DID NOT come up-said "this name is not listed as a registered voter.
He then called the king county elections office-they looked him up and said he was on the list as voting-but there are about 25 other men in king county with his same name-different middle initials, cities, etc. I dont understand how they can say he was on the list, yet according to their web site and the seattle times web site-no name listed. Any suggestions.????
I felt like the wind in my sails was gone after listening to sam reed today- I really hate to sound like the negative person here-but I really feel like she's got it and everyone wrapped up around her finger. I dont understand how Reed and the rest of the legislature state-there are no signs of fraud or irregularities that would question the integrity of this vote?? Are we-bloggers-exagerating the facts here to make a point??-
Are we having wishful thinking that this could ever go for a revote or that ballots would ever get excluded- despite as history shows-has really never happened.??
I listened to Dean Logan yesterday on Dori and he said king county was fully aware of the large discrepencies in the vote total vs. ballots and that there were that many provisional ballots that went through the system without being checked. I never heard that from his mouth prior to this. He acted as if this was normal, he was happy at how efficient this election went as opposed to the others in the past and how many problems they've fixed in a relatively short amount of time.
I dont understand how so many people in this state oppose the election, petitions, emails, phone calls-yet these "elected officials" have turned a deaf ear to all those who put them in office-democrats and republicans alike!!!!
Why are there laws put forth if no one is held responsible to follow them ie: RCW laws showing that you have to have records that match voters-why have laws.
I'm so disappointed, frustrated and feel like life may be better on a remote island in the middle of the pacific ocean.
"What, exactly, have you got against election reform? Won't allow you to intimidate? Won't allow you to impede the process?"
Laura, Washington Republicans want to have election reform. Democrats want to maintain the status quo, especially in Demo strongholds like King County.
Don't worry, as a person ages the more conservative he/she tend to become (or at appears to be when compared to younger generations). I wasn't born a super/ultra/extreme right wing conservative Republican, it has taken years of correct thinking to arrive at this point.
Sam Reed said that if he was Dino Rossi, he would probably do exactly what Rossi is doing.
So, Rossi must be right if the honorable Sam Reed agrees with his course of action?
53. The democrats do care about election fraud and misconduct, just not necessarily in our state. Check out the Whatcom County Democrats web site and the "resolution" sent to the state committee concerning voter disenfranchisement in the presidental election. If only they would apply these principals to the goveners race.
YDOG......yes...they did change things ..initially, only King co was allowed to go over lists and go after voters who voted for Chrissy and get them to sign their afadavits...no other county got to do that...only King....
what other counties were allowed to accept votes AFTER the initial election, votes that they just happened to find?
and during the last recount, the number of ballots sent to the three person canvasing board.....read, 2 democrats to one republican...INCREASED DRAMATICALLY as the democrat hacks feared they were losing yet another round....the votes....went decidedly for Chrissy....even when Chrissy name was crossed out, they counted it for her...
nope.....the democrat party stole this election, ballot by ballot, finding new ballots daily it seemed, and getting them all accepted by your democrat judges...
and lets just imagine for an instant how so many ballots just showed up without the corresponding number of voters....how the Hell does that happen if not deliberate...
and finally.....YOUR stinking democrat election boss Ronny Simms has admitted that for years they have been counting absentee ballots even without having proper signatures on file...
every close election in this state is suspect, because you guys have been stealing the elections all along....
for shame on you....for shame on the democrat party hacks for destroying our elections....
What Dems like Headless Lucy and Tom don't seem to get is that a month ago, a) there were Republicans calling for a revote, and b) Stefan, the BIAW, the WSRP, etc. had not uncovered a lot of the illegitimate and illegal votes that we now know were an outcome significant percentage of this election. And on the flipside, many Democrats like David Goldstein of the HorsesAss.org were saying that the election was too close to call. Turns out that David was right then, it is too close to call given that we can't even trust several thousand votes or possibly even more.
If all the hard core Dems can muster for an argument is that the election should stand pat because it legally ended after three counts, then it's no wonder that so many moderate Dems in this state are supporting the revote.
I got a call tonight from a moderate friend who lives in Magnolia. He's a very level headed guy, does not get fired up about politics like any of us. He voted for Bush, but he also voted for Gregoire. He thought I was going to bite his head off when I heard he had voted for Gregoire. But he said that from what he knows now, the election is a total sham and that the only solution is a recontest. He's not willing to come to the rally in Olympia, but he supports the revote. He also said that the more the Dems try to fight the illegitimate votes that are so painfully obvious to almost all Washingtonions, and especially the moderate split ticket voters like him who think that all of us political junkies should calm down, the less he supports Gregoire.
My friend is a bellweather for the Democrats. Hardcore Dems, be careful how far you take this, you are losing the trust of the moderates and you've probably already lost all trust with staunch Republicans, that together add up to a much larger percentage of the state, even when you look at the million voters from King County.
The bottom line is that the vast majority of the public in Washington do not trust this election. This is a plain fact. Even with plenty of partisan legislators that are strictly controlled by the Democrat party line, you are never going to be able to reverse the tide of anger from the majority. There is critical mass.
Ignore this at your peril.
look, the fact is whether or not a select few republicans actually supported a revote before the third recount, dino rossi and chris vance did not. in fact if i remember correctly, this very blog appeared happy with the first two "wins" by rossi. so what's up with rossi, vance, kvi, and slade gorton (fishsticks) being content with not counting votes until rossi fell behind? i think this points to the fallacious nature of the gop's current position.
i find it troubling that people are even comparing this to ohio (bad secretary of state, obvious voter discouragement, but still a clear bush victory) or florida (evil secretary of state with a severe conflict of interest, thousands of disenfranchised voters, a poor decision by the supreme court, and if the votes had been counted--a gore victory), or ukraine (insert any sound politics rants here). it's taking a long time for the republicans to find any sort of deliberate fraud in this state. finally the fact that a number of rossi leaning counties have more of the mundane voting irregularities that king county has indicates that this is not some grand fraud, and it's simply a normal fact in the big scheme of democracy.
also looking back to the good old days of december i seem to remember that the republicans were pressuring gregoire to concede for the good of our state. the argument followed that the operations of the state would fall apart if a new governor wasn't appointed in a timely manner. has the gop's concern for the welfare of our state fallen by the wayside, or was that argument just a sham to pressure the dems into conceding the race?
just a few questions for you to ponder.
Sorry Dog, I did not mean to be "hostile" but with folks like Headless around....you know the bi-partisan unity type on your side. She took all of one post to sink back into the "elite" name game. The playbook is the same everywhere for the left.
Miriam, I am from that fine area of the country where we supported Pres. Bush at 78% of the vote.
Tom, that is why I said you MIGHT the drink kool aid. Again reading only what you want to see.
RE-VOTE is the only way this will be solved in a fair manner and if the Dems are SO confident of a win they why not? Hmmm?
Frank: "i find it troubling that people are even comparing this to... florida (...if the votes had been counted--a gore victory)."
Sorry, Frank - the votes WERE counted following the 2000 election by a consortium of media groups, and they found that NO MATTER HOW THEY COUNTED THEM, Bush still won the Florida vote every time. Don't believe me? Go read about it at www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/ florida.ballots/stories/main.html.
I am so TIRED of this old canard being repeated endlessly; just proves that if you say something enough times, people will believe it.
Jeff B said: "What Dems like Headless Lucy and Tom don't seem to get is that a month ago, a) there were Republicans calling for a revote, and b) Stefan, the BIAW, the WSRP, etc. had not uncovered a lot of the illegitimate and illegal votes that we now know were an outcome significant percentage of this election. And on the flipside, many Democrats like David Goldstein of the HorsesAss.org were saying that the election was too close to call. Turns out that David was right then, it is too close to call given that we can't even trust several thousand votes or possibly even more."
a) As mentioned many times, the only time republicans began calling for a revote is when it was apparent Rossi would lose his lead. Until then, the pressure was for Gregoire to concede, for voters to be held to a voting standard, etc.
b) At the time, Goldstein was villified here for suggesting it was too close. But now that Rossi is behind, Rs like to say it's too close, as you do. If that's not hyprocrisy, I don't know what is. The votes you talk about were already assumed as of the PR effort the Rs used (they talked about Gregoire "stealing" the election, the Ds "cheating") -- WELL BEFORE any of this uncovered data was brought forward.
Just like the Ds are total hypocrites to say Rossi should concede after saying it's too close.
Oh goody, Authoritarian Tom is back--the guy who said we should "dump" all the Democrats & Republicans and that we don't have a "real" democracy.
Presumably if we all reached his enlightened stance, then we might be worthy.
My apologies for that last, Tom. I had you confused with one Tobias, who said this:
"What we need to do is dump you libs and cons so we can get a semblance of a democracy back."
Posted by Tobias at January 4, 2005 01:42 PM
I wrote the owner of http://shadowbox.i8.com/stolen.htm whom you quoted in this post about Washington voter fraud. The owner, Elise Jackson wrote back:
"Stephen, what you're referring to is the section called "Citizen Research & Analysis." Any digging by citizens was concentrated first in Florida, then in Ohio - no one got to WA (nor did anyone dig into the NY State Westchester Senate race), so I never put a separate section for the state because the story was slower to develop than the NY sanate race. But since there have been a number of articles on the WA gubernatorial race, I copied article links I already had listed to a new section for WA state.
Thanks for pointing it out!"
The link is http://shadowbox.i8.com/stolen.htm#washington
63. Niceville, you mud-slingin' labeling pinhead. It's OK in your book to trash anyone you disagree with but God help them if they return the favor. All I've got to say to you is: NO QUARTER!
Ouch! Can we all just get along? Being a Democrat on this board begins to feel like being the target in a knife throwing contest.
Yes, a very few Republicans were calling for a re-vote right from the beginning. The vast majority were calling for Ms. Gregoire to concede and go home, right up until the moment they were no longer winning.
Most Democrats were saying that the election was "too close to call" and "a virtual tie" right up until the moment that the "tie" was in our favor. Now, somehow it's a mandate. Go figure.
Personally, I'm gratified that it's going to the court, as I'm sure that neither side has a lock on the truth, that this election is (at least apparently) a mess, and with all the rhetoric flying about, we're unlikely to find out the whole, unvarnished truth any other way.
If the court finds that the election needs to be thrown out, I will accept that and happily head back to the polls. No sweat for me, as there's a school bond election in February anyway. Just add the Governor's race to that ballot. We might even get enough votes to validate the bond election!
Here's my question for you on the other side. If the court finds that the election should not be thrown out, can you accept that decision?