January 02, 2005
A ‘No Vote’ Ballot Counted As A Gregoire Vote

Reader Brian Thomas forwarded us the following very detailed letter describing his experience as a recount worker.

Click extended entry to read the whole thing. Such confidence of a "no vote" should mean a "vote of no confidence," in this election.

December 24, 2004

Dino Rossi Campaign 15100 SE 38th Street #715 Bellevue, Washington 98006

Re: A ‘No Vote’ Ballot Counted As A Gregoire Vote

On Monday, December 20, 2004, in a second count of a box of absentee ballots I found, in the middle of ballots with Christine Gregoire votes, a ballot on which the bubble next to Christine Gregoire had been filled in and ‘X’ed out twice. X’ing out a bubble being the correct procedure for canceling a vote on an absentee ballot. Next to the ‘X’ed out bubble was printed the words “no vote” with an arrow pointing to the name Christine Gregoire. I showed the ballot to the recorder and the Democrat counter and held it so that it could be seen by the observer sitting next to me. I handed the ballot to the recorder to be sent to the canvas board. When filling out the tally slips the ballot was again viewed and noted by the Democrat counter and myself as a canvas ballot and by the recorder on the recorder’s tally slip as a canvas ballot. The ballot was handed to the runner as a canvas ballot with the box of counted ballots

“How and why did the ballot end up in the previously counted Gregoire ballots?

Our count was the second count of that precinct as there was a previous tally slip in the sealed box when it was opened. I was at least the third person to have viewed that ballot as it would had been viewed by the two counters during the previous count. Yet a ballot clearly marked as to not be a vote for Christine Gregoire was in with the ballots with Gregoire votes and not separated out in a way that would denote that it had been counted as anything other than a Gregoire vote.

When the ballots from a precinct are hand counted, prior to counting they were grouped into six (6) separate stacks: Rossi, Gregoire, Bennett, write-in, under-vote and over-vote / canvas board. At the completion of the count the ballots are usually placed back in the box in these groupings or as a single stack containing these groupings as it easier to handle the ballots as stacks and there is no reason to shuffle them. As an example, the stack of Rossi ballots would be placed in the bottom of the box with the Gregoire, Bennett, etc. placed on top until all the ballots are placed in the box or the groups are placed in a single stack on the table and the single stack is placed in the box.

When the ballots are taken out of the box for a recount, the box is usually turned over and the intact stack of ballots dumped on the table. Some people take the ballots out of the box in handfuls and place them in a stack on the table in the order that they are taken out of the box. In neither method, as both a counter and an observer, did I ever see the ballots shuffled and the groups of ballots disrupted except when the ballots were taken out in several handfuls and the groups of ballots arbitrarily broken in the process. In the latter situation, a non conforming ballot(s) could be placed within a stack of the same grouping if the ballots were removed from the box by the handful and, for example, the first handful was of a portion of the Rossi ballots and the second handful was of the remaining Rossi ballots and a ballot(s) from the next grouping, such as a write-in ballot(s). When the second handful is placed on top of the first handful, there could be a non conforming ballot(s), such as the write-in ballot(s), in the stack of Rossi ballots.

On the day that I found the ‘no vote’ ballot, at our table I was the one who opened the sealed box of ballots and took the ballots out of the box. My procedure was if I could reach into the box and take the ballots out in one handful I would. Otherwise I would turn the box on it’s side, holding the ballots in, and then turn the box upside down, depositing the ballots in a stack on table top. If I was to take the ballots out of the box in more than one handful, there would have been an arbitrarily break line but at no time was there a shuffling of ballots. In the box of ballots that contained the ‘no vote’ ballot I dumped the ballots in one stack on the table.

Either way, the ‘no vote’ ballot should not have been in the Gregoire ballots, whether the ballots were dumped out in a stack or were taken out of the box in a series of handfuls and placed in a stack. In the first instance, the ‘no vote’ ballot should not have been in the Gregoire stack as it was clearly not a Gregoire vote. In the second instance, that being the ‘no vote’ ballot being in one of the other groupings and having been arbitrarily picked up as part of a hand full and placed in the stack in the process of restacking, it should not have been in the Gregoire stack. The ballot should not have been in the box of ballots in the first place. It did not meet the requirements of any of the required groupings and should have sent to canvas for disposition at the time of the first hand count.

Why was the ‘no vote’ ballot in the box and why was the vote on the ballot being counted?

Why the ballot was being counted as a Gregoire vote is at this point speculation, but it is not without reason and the reason for that ballot to be in the box of ballots after the first hand count is open to question and examination.

The ballots in the box were ballots that had been previously hand counted. The box was sealed and would have arrived with any additions or deletions to the box of ballots having been concluded with the previous hand count. The only source of an additional ballot(s) would be a ballot(s) from a hand count of a different precinct that had been removed from that hand count as being in the wrong precinct. That ballot(s) would have been delivered in a separate envelope with the box of ballots. This was not the case. And if a ballot(s) had been delivered in a separate envelope with the box of ballots it would not have been among the Gregoire ballots as the procedure was for me to open the box of ballots and stack them on the table and for the other counter to open the envelope and to place the ballot(s) on top of the stack of the ballots from the box. The ‘no vote’ ballot was in the group of ballots with Gregoire votes in the sealed box of ballots.

During the hand count each ballot is viewed at least three times. Each table had it’s own procedure. Our procedure was to separate the ballots into two piles, three if the recorder was participating, and each ballot was checked for the correct precinct number. The stacks of ballots were then exchanged and if the recorder was participating in the precinct check the recorders stack was separated into two stacks and which were placed on the two counters stacks. Each counter then checked the other counters stack plus half of the recorders stack. We then each separated our stacks of ballots into the six (6) separate stacks: Rossi, Gregoire, Bennett, write-in, under-vote and over-vote / canvas board with the recorder observing the separation. Some counters worked off of the same stack of ballots at the same time with each counter removing and stacking ballots for a particular candidate, such as the Republican removing the ballot with the Rossi vote and the Democrat removing the ballot with the Gregoire vote. If the recorder was participating, the recorder would remove and stack the ballots for Bennett, write-in, under-vote and over-vote / canvas board.

After the ballots were separated into their distinct stacks, we each checked the stacks to confirm that the stack only contained ballots with votes for that individual, Rossi, Gregoire or Bennett, or grouping, write-in, under-vote and over-vote / canvas board. (It was during this procedure that I pulled the ‘no vote’ ballot for the canvas board.) We would then separately count the votes in the stack of Rossi or Gregoire ballots, exchanging the stacks and individually writing down our count. We would then separately count the ballots with Bennett votes and the ballots of the other groupings, write-in, under-vote and over-vote / canvas board, individually writing down our count. Some counters counted the votes as they checked the stacks to confirm that the stack only contained ballots particular to that grouping. We did not use that method as if upon exchanging the stacks of ballots a ballot was questioned, such as a ballot going to the canvas board, the stack would have to be recounted by the other counter. At completion of the counts the individual tally sheets were handed to the recorder to compare the tallies. If the tallies were a match, the ballots were placed back in the box. Since after the ballots had been counted they were in their individual stacks, the individual stacks were placed in the box or the individual stacks were stacked upon each other and the combining stack was placed in the box. The only single ballots would have been from a grouping that contained only one ballot. The stacks were not shuffled.

During the procedure that we used at our counting table, if the ‘no vote’ ballot had not been pulled it would have been viewed by two different people three times for total of being viewed five (5) times. Once when the ballot was separated from the stack as a Gregoire vote, twice when the Gregoire vote stack was checked by each counter to confirm that it only contained Gregoire votes and twice when the Gregoire stack was counted by each counter. At our counting table the recorder observed each of these steps for an additional three times that the ‘no vote’ ballot would have been viewed. I pulled the ‘no vote’ ballot at the first stage of our ballot counting procedure, separating the ballots, as it should have been done by the previous counters. The question is; why wasn’t it?

Why was the ‘no vote’ ballot in the box?

Our vote counting procedure included checks at each stage of the procedure. Counting procedures may vary but the question as to how and why the ‘no vote’ ballot had been counted as an Gregoire vote three times can not be simply dismissed as a difference in procedure. Regardless of the procedure, each ballot should have been viewed by both counters at least twice. If the stack of ballots were separated by the two counters simultaneously and then the individual stacks of ballots were each counted by each counter, each counter would have seen the ‘no vote’ ballot twice. Once at the separation of the ballot into the individual candidates stack and once when the votes were counted. Unless the ballots were counted and not the vote for the candidate, in which case a counter could have viewed the vote only once Which would bring up the competency of the counters and the King County Elections staff for allowing counters to count ballots and not requiring them to count ‘votes’.

If the counters counted the ballots and not the votes, they would have both seen the ballot and the ‘no vote’ at the time of separation of the ballots into the candidates individual stacks. To be able to separate the ballots into the individual candidates stack the counters have to look at the candidates to make the decision as to which candidate the vote belongs.. For the purpose of an excuse as to why the ‘no vote’ ballot was in the Gregoire stack at the start of the second hand recount, that being that sloppy examination and counting procedure of two people, one a Republican and one a Democrat, resulting in missing a canceled Gregoire vote and including the vote as a Gregoire vote, still brings up the question as to why the ‘no vote’ ballot was in the recount ballots in the first place.

The ballot would have gone through the initial machine count and the machine recount as a vote for Gregoire as the machine would have simply read the filled in bubble next to Gregoire’s name and would not have read the ‘X’ed out bubble as cancellation of the vote, nor the ‘no vote’ notation next to Gregoire’s name. Since after canceling the initial vote a subsequent vote was not made, if it had been the machine would have read it as an over-vote, rejected the ballot and it would have sent to the ‘enhancement’ table during the machine count, I asked King County Elections staff the procedure for absentee ballots in which a vote is canceled but a subsequent is not made, in effect a under-vote. I was told that each absentee ballot is checked for incongruities at the time of opening and at that time problem would be resoled. Evidently that check and subsequent resolution of the problem was not resolved as the vote was counted for Gregoire. The question is why.

Why was a canceled vote for Gregoire allowed to be counted as a vote for Gregoire? Thrice.

If, contrary to what I was told by the King County Elections staff, absentee ballots upon opening are not checked for irregularities that could result in an inaccurate vote count by the tabulation machines prior to being read by the tabulation machines, why aren’t ballots checked for problems that could, and in this case evidently did, result in the casting a false vote for Christine Gregoire and in an inaccurate vote tally? This is a simple problem and one that should have been foreseen by the King County Election staff. For King County Elections staff to have not foreseen this as a potential problem, one that could result in false readings by the tabulation machines and inaccurate vote tallies, would be gross negligence and incompetence and would be tantamount to misfeasance by King County Elections staff and should be investigated as such as it could be indicative of a larger problem of malfeasance by King County Elections supervisors.

If the absentee ballots upon opening are checked for irregularities that would result in an inaccurate vote count by the tabulation machines prior to being read by the tabulation machines, how and/or why was this ballot not ‘corrected’, as were ballots with other problems or the intent was not clear as the ‘no vote’ ballot, prior to being evidently counted as a false vote for Gregoire resulting in an inaccurate vote tally? If the failure of the King County Elections staff to take steps necessary to insure that the correct vote is tallied is simply the due to gross negligence and incompetence is one thing. But if the King County Elections staff knew that the ‘no vote’ ballot would be counted as a Gregoire ballot by the tabulation machines unless the ballot was rejected for some other reason and choose to not make the necessary corrections to prevent the vote being cast for Gregoire, not considering a possible hand count, that would be malfeasance by King County Elections staff and would be tantamount to intent to commit fraud and should be investigated.

Brian Thomas

Posted by Brian Crouch at January 02, 2005 04:52 PM | Email This

Comments
1. Should make for an interesting deposition in the contest. One of hundreds I understand.

Posted by: Ms. Cynical on January 2, 2005 05:52 PM
2. Seriously woeful at best...criminally negligent at worst..unbelievable. Since the legislature is predominately democratic..this election wont go to revote...SCOTUS here we come..damn.

Posted by: PR on January 2, 2005 06:04 PM
3. Interesting story. Sounds like an alert election worker may have discovered a ballot that was erroneously counted in the earlier counts. Good for him!

I'm assuming he made certain it was correctly counted in the final tally.

Posted by: scottd on January 2, 2005 06:23 PM
4. Keep in mind that the state legislature represents some seriously red districts and won't want to touch this hot potato. Therefore, a re-vote is an easy way out for them. Also keep in mind that tens of thousands of democrats support Rossi.

Posted by: CP on January 2, 2005 06:53 PM
5. People have really got to take a moment and look at the list posted at the Seattle Times. Put any last name in the search - never mind about the other information - it isn't required....It will pull up everyone with that last name. Then just scroll down the list to look at the irregularities!

I searched the last names of Wood, Jones, Sims, Phillips, Lee, etc.....
The more common the last name - the more irregularities. It's funny that the last name of *Sims* has virtually no duplicates - where *Wood* is filled with duplicate names and city/zips. Is Wood a more common name than Sims? Maybe...I also saw numerous uncommon first names duplicated. I saw many with the same names, city/zip..but one listing said they didn't vote and the other showed they did. Why so many identicle duplicates showing one didn't vote and the other did? I also saw many listings like the following example:

J L Long Kent 98031 voted absentee
John L Long Kent 98031 voted at poll
John Leon Long Kent 98031 voted absentee

I just used these names as an example - they are fictitious and probably not on the actual list...(this disclaimer is for the liberal trolls reading these posts...sigh - who need clarification..)

Posted by: Deborah on January 2, 2005 07:11 PM
6. People have really got to take a moment and look at the list posted at the Seattle Times. Put any last name in the search - never mind about the other information - it isn't required....It will pull up everyone with that last name. Then just scroll down the list to look at the irregularities!

I searched the last names of Wood, Jones, Sims, Phillips, Lee, etc.....
The more common the last name - the more irregularities. It's funny that the last name of *Sims* has virtually no duplicates - where *Wood* is filled with duplicate names and city/zips. Is Wood a more common name than Sims? Maybe...I also saw numerous uncommon first names duplicated. I saw many with the same names, city/zip..but one listing said they didn't vote and the other showed they did. Why so many identicle duplicates showing one didn't vote and the other did? I also saw many listings like the following example:

J L Long Kent 98031 voted absentee
John L Long Kent 98031 voted at poll
John Leon Long Kent 98031 voted absentee

I just used these names as an example - they are fictitious and probably not on the actual list...(this disclaimer is for the liberal trolls reading these posts...sigh - who need clarification..)

Posted by: Deborah on January 2, 2005 07:12 PM
7. When I was a KC observer, the thing that really upset me was that so many ballots went on to canvassing. Before the Dem trolls on this blog freak out and point out that this was legal, which I realize, it was still very partisan behavior. In effect, bias was inserted into the elction every time there was a ballot that was anything other than perfectly cast.

This is just part of the reason that many of us are so frustrated with the elction process. How can something that is such an noble and obviously objective process (counting ballots into piles to produce a return) be perverted so openly and subjectively into a game of solitaire that King County was playing with its ballots and voter database to electioneer a result for Gregoire?

Posted by: Jeff B. on January 2, 2005 07:20 PM
8. Deborah - I went to the Seattle Times website and can't find where this list is located. Could you tell me how to find it?

Posted by: Ms. Cynical on January 2, 2005 07:35 PM
9. Pulling a single days death notices from the PI in August I started entering away in the King County voter database. Out of 37 names listed (several of the names from out of King County) I found 4 dead voters voting in the November election. I know they could be people with similar names but I found the locations clustered together also. The Rossi campaign better be looking at this also.

Posted by: michael on January 2, 2005 07:37 PM
10. Remember, in any revote the voters of washington ahve to counteract the four DEMOCRATIC county council districts (2, 4, 5, & 10). In the last canvass these districts represented 10% of the voters in the state (285,000 of 2,888,000) and gave Gregoire a plurality of 139,406 over Rossi. That is a big starting deficit to overcome (Rossi carried the rest of the state by 53% to 47% more of less),

Posted by: mike on January 2, 2005 07:39 PM
11. Never mind Deborah, I googled the KC database and found it. Interesting to say the least.

Posted by: CP on January 2, 2005 07:44 PM
12. It would be interesting to know, what the *complaint* procedure was in King County, for observers and counters who noticed unusual activities during the vote counts and recounts?
I have heard from one Republican observer during the first count and machine recount - there were many unusual things happening in front of he and his wife and when he went to complain about it - he was told to wait until the count was completed and to not disturb anyone! Then he was given a long list of instructions on how to file a formal complaint with the King County elections people...etc.. He said he quit in disgust before the recount was over...

Exactly what was the procedure during the counts - if an observer or counter had a complaint? It seems like a complaint filed with the very people who may have orchestrated fraud would be usless and likely not even registered!

Posted by: Deborah on January 2, 2005 07:46 PM
13. The Seattle Times list link was in one of the threads running in Sound Politics....

OOPS! Sorry...I thought everyone saw it! Here is the URL:

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/politics/voters/search.pl

Posted by: Deborah on January 2, 2005 07:50 PM
14. Deborah: Why is this so hard to understand? The reason you find duplicates of common names is because the names are common. Sometimes, people with the same name even live in the same zip code. Since the Times database doesn't show complete addresses, you'll see two "identical" listings when this happens. Why would it surprise you if one of those individuals voted and the other didn't? I don't coordinate my activities with all the other scottds out there -- although we do meet once a month to plot future election scams :-)

Nice touch using a made up example instead of one of your numerous actual examples. I guess that's one way to avoid the embarrassment of having someone use a phone book to demonstrate that multiple individuals with the same name actually live in the zip codes you cite.

Posted by: scottd on January 2, 2005 08:04 PM
15. scottd wrote:
The reason you find duplicates of common names is because the names are common. Sometimes, people with the same name even live in the same zip code.


Maybe. Maybe not. Yours is one possible explanation. But there are other explanations too. Other explanations that aren't nearly so benign, and which also help explain where those extra 3,539 votes came from.

Posted by: jay bird on January 2, 2005 08:47 PM
16. Deborah,

At the recount facility in Tukwila, it was abundantly clear that if you were a Republican, you were not all that welcome in Deomcrat Country.

I had similar problems voicing any complaints. The basic attitude was "Be glad you are even here to observe at all. Don't complain about the fact that you can't observe the tables that are in the middle of the roped off areas, and shut-up, don't speak to anyone unless it is one of your Republican observer staff, etc.

In short, counting votes in King County is the "right" of Democrats and since they currently hold the offices responsible for voting, it was their show to run as they pleased.

Is there anyone else besides me that was shocked to learn as I did in this election that Election Adminstration was partisan? I always figured this would be a very non-partisan, very objective process, boy was I naive.

Posted by: Jeff B. on January 2, 2005 08:54 PM
17. scottd,
"Nice touch using a made up example instead of one of your numerous actual examples. I guess that's one way to avoid the embarrassment of having someone use a phone book to demonstrate that multiple individuals with the same name actually live in the zip codes you cite."

Okee dokee scottd! You caught me! Just trying to avoid some embarrassment! (Stefan - you really need a sarcasm smiley in here...) And of course - when I fail to find duplicate listings for the same name and city in the phonebook...you would just assume the duplicate party was not listed. Then we can go in circles...forever (which is right out of the Liberal rhetorical playbook!)
Of course - the mere fact that there are so many duplicates, and that there was a glitch in the system that caused duplicate ballots to be sent out - could account for so many duplicate listings. But then...we would have to assume that King County has had problems keeping their voter registration and ballot counts straight.......? Nahhh! This can't be!

Please don't post to me. One doesn't need to study your post's long to determine you are a troll in this blog....


If you MUST post a comment with reference to one of my post's...Please try and at least use some common sense. Look it up....*common sense*! You will marvel at it's meaning!

And I mean that....sincerely....

Posted by: Deborah on January 2, 2005 08:58 PM
18. Hey Deb, it's always easier to hang out with people who agree with you, but that's no reason to resort to name-calling with those who don't. I think my arguments are well-reasoned, and I'm willing to hang around and defend them in reasonable civil discourse. If you think that makes me a troll, too bad. But really, I don't mean to offend you.

As for common sense, I'll leave it to others to judge which is more likely: multiple instances of common names in a million-name database, or a carefully constructed conspiracy to steal an election.

By all means, please report all occurences of strange name coincidences to the Rossi campaign. I can't think of a better use of their time than sorting through them.

Posted by: scottd on January 2, 2005 09:39 PM
19. scottd,

"I think my arguments are well-reasoned, and I'm willing to hang around and defend them in reasonable civil discourse."

No scott, your arguments are simply counter- points - made with the intent of ridiculing any one who makes a valid discovery of anything unusual in the King County list.

"But really, I don't mean to offend you."

Of course you meant to offend me - and anyone who pursues the truth in this election. Why else would you have made this comment?:
"Nice touch using a made up example instead of one of your numerous actual examples. I guess that's one way to avoid the embarrassment of having someone use a phone book to demonstrate that multiple individuals with the same name actually live in the zip codes you cite."

It certainly wasn't out of respect....

"As for common sense, I'll leave it to others "

Sorry to stop at that point of your statement - but it seemed appropriate.

"By all means, please report all occurences of strange name coincidences to the Rossi campaign."

Thank you! But I take no direction from trolls.

Now please, bother someone else.

Thanks! And have a nice day!

Posted by: Deborah on January 2, 2005 09:53 PM
20. scottd: Spoken like a true partisan. Naturally you don't mention the third possibility. An election that is so screwed up by outdated voter rolls, poor management of the count/certification, "get out the vote" zealots who registered anybody they could find, duplicate ballots sent to people, etc etc. that the results are not believable. This is not a carefully constructed conspiracy it is a collosal screw up. And the Rossi voters don;t want to pay the price for King County's screw up.

The conspiracy if one exists will be during the cover up of all these screw ups when Rossi contests the election and King County has to answer questions under sub poena. Their stone walling about the missing 3500 voters is just the start. They hope that buying time will make this all blow away, with the press helping of course.

Posted by: zip on January 2, 2005 09:57 PM
21. Deborah, I believe scottd was telling you he knows for a fact that no fraud has occurred.


Of course, one would wonder how he knows that...

Posted by: South County on January 2, 2005 10:08 PM
22. Southie: Read my posts. I've said that no fraud has been demonstrated. If fraud actually exists, I hope someone finds it. Really.

So far, the evidence presented here has been pretty weak. Not that my opinion matters -- but the Washington Supreme Court will probably look at things a little more critically.

zip: Any voter database contains the names of deceased voters and some actual duplicates (people move and forget to notify the registrar when they register at their new address). Registrars try to purge these entries, but sometimes they miss a few (or a few hundred in a large list). That's not fraud. Fraud occurs when dead people vote, or when people vote twice. So far that hasn't been demonstrated.

My guess is that if you look hard enough, you might actually find a few cases of genuine fraud -- but that's probably not going to be enough to set the election aside. Just an opinion -- yours may vary.

Posted by: scottd on January 2, 2005 10:29 PM
23. I am amazed that:

... the law allows hand recounts.
... ballots can be defaced during a recount.
... there is any attempt to interpret a ballot.
(how smart do you have to be to fill in a circle?)

At this point, I am not amazed that King County had a reservoir of newly discovered ballots. If two recounts had not been enough to elect Gregoire, I'm sure, somehow, they would have finageled a third, and that more ballots would have been "discovered." Gotta make sure all votes are counted until the Democrat wins.

Posted by: Boonie on January 2, 2005 10:30 PM
24. I want it all in the open.....I want the way that King co collects its votes and counts its votes to be known to everyone....

from now on, King co will not be able to get away with this so easy.....electing their stinking Democrat party hacks with their unusual registering and counting methods...

the real truth is this....IMO...that along with the obvious crooked way the Democrat party stole this election , that the King co. crooks have been engineering elections for some time...

Maria Cantwell....she is not our Senator, IMO...I think her election was engineered too...

I want voters to be citizens of our state for at least 6 months before they can vote here...no more of these passing transients, that nobody can track, stealing our elections with the help of the Democrat party.....the party from now on known as the party of fraud....

Posted by: lee on January 2, 2005 10:33 PM
25. Being that there are no residency requirements in our state for voting, are there any procedures in place to stop the following:

1) I live in another state (say... Virginia) for a number of years.
2) I decide I am moving to Seattle
3) Before I move to Seattle, I receive my Virginia absentee ballot (or, alternatively, I have my mail forwarded to Seattle)
4) I vote absentee in Virginia
5) I register in Seattle (timing is a question here -- does the deadline for registering in Seattle/King County happen BEFORE or AFTER other states mail absentee ballots)
6) I vote in Seattle.

Though I don't have evidence of such a scenario (and I don't encourage it), and though it would not affect this current election, are there any safeguards to stop such a thing?

Posted by: bmvaughn on January 2, 2005 11:02 PM
26. scottd-- We're really suggesting a flawed election, one voters can have no confidence in... massive sloppiness. Like zip says, that is as good an explanation as coincidence, and we have other proof of it. Have you ever heard of finding ballots 9 separate times after the the election was over?

Posted by: Bleeding heart conservative on January 2, 2005 11:16 PM
27. bmvaughn,

There is a concern that many voters with dual residency were able to vote twice in the National election due to the lack of a national voter database that would catch duplicates. For instance, if a college student from Washington State took up residency at her dorm in Virginia, she could vote absentee in Washington using her parents address AND register in Virginia using her dorm address - thus being able to vote twice in the Presidential election.....There are very few states that have the means to check this. And there was a lot of controversy around the Rock The Votes campaign before this election..where certain ideas and instructions (as I've listed above) were rumored to be circulating.....

Knowing how lax Washington state and King County are with their voter verification...it is entirely possible that a college student with a primary address in Seattle, now living in a dorm in Eastern Washington, could basically do the same thing. But we would hope that the State had a database to check double voting.....I'm not sure if Washington has a way to check this.....sigh....

Posted by: Deborah on January 2, 2005 11:29 PM
28. Jeff B., thank you for sharing what you experienced at the recount. It's a real eye-opener for the rest of us. I'm really not shocked, but I am very disappointed that yes things are this partisan. I truly believe that if many in this room were in charge of elections, we would be much more conscientious about simply running a clean election and not trying to unfairly engineer wins for 'our' people. That's not the job of the election workers, after all. Their jobs are to run clean and fair elections. Period. IF we can get THAT, everybody wins. Too bad they can't put republicans in charge of this county's elections, because I believe they would be better run and much more honest. After all, they didn't seem to have this kind of stuff being pulled time after time in Spokane or Yakima County.

Posted by: Michele on January 2, 2005 11:38 PM
29. And Lee, I agree with you--- I now believe that Maria Cantwell is taking a seat that rightfully belongs to Slade Gorton, and if she's paying any attention to all of this, I think she knows it, too! How could she not?

Posted by: Michele on January 2, 2005 11:41 PM
30. Southie: Read my posts. I've said that no fraud has been demonstrated. If fraud actually exists, I hope someone finds it. Really.

scott, I would encourage you that if you have something to add to the discussion in the future, that you do so.

I don't care if fraud can be proven. This entire process is so screwed that it's entirely possible that nothing can be proven, one way or another. Including...who won. I'll say this again, though I have little hope it will stick...this is not about Dino anymore. It's about MY election process. If we are successful in bringing change, then there's a long list of people and organizations we'll owe a "thanks for nothing" to.

Posted by: South County on January 3, 2005 06:04 AM
31. Red counties are where real America lives!

Posted by: mark on January 3, 2005 08:30 AM
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