December 14, 2004
Recount Scoreboard

Here's is your definitive cut-to-the-chase scoreboard for the manual recount.

UPDATE Time: Tuesday, Dec. 14, 4:40pm
[includes Chelan, Clark, Cowlitz, Franklin, Grant, Klickitat, Okanagan, Whitman]

NOTE: I'm compressing and combining the two tables I had earlier. The new item, "Momentum Change in Lead", indicates the change in the lead considering the new ballots that have been added.

Counties Reported
32
 
% of State Vote Reported
31.8%
 
Apparent Gain in Lead
(+Rossi / -Gregoire)
+64  
Imputed Lead (assuming no new votes in unreported counties) +106  
Momentum Change in Lead no change  
Net change in 2-party votes +432 +0.05%
Tabulation error 0.05%  
Total Lead in Reported Counties
( +Rossi / -Gregoire)
+128,493 +14.9439%
Lead in Machine Recount from Unreported Counties -128,387 -6.8091%
Rossi lead in machine count in unreported Ex-King   +26,322
Extrapolated Rossi lead in unreported Ex-King +26,334  
Required lead in King for Gregoire to reverse -154,827  
Gregoire lead in machine count in King -154,709  
Required increase in Gregoire's lead
in King manual recount for reversal
-118  
New two-party votes required in King
(assuming same breakdown as in machine recount)
655  
Imputed tabulation error in King County to produce required new two-party votes 0.08%  

County
Net Lead in Recount
(+Rossi / -Gregoire)
Tabulation Error
TOTAL
+64
0.05%
 
Adams
-5
0.10%
Asotin
+5
0.18%
Benton
+2
0.01%
Chelan
+1
0.00%
Clallam
0
0.02%
Clark
+2
0.03%
Columbia
+1
0.05%
Cowlitz
+1
0.01%
Douglas
0
0.02%
Ferry
0
-
Franklin
+5
0.15%
Garfield
0
-
Grant
+7
0.03%
Grays Harbor
-2
0.06%
Island
-4
0.03%
Jefferson
-2
0.07%
King
Kitsap
+10
0.13%
Kittitas
0
-
Klickitat
0
-
Lewis
+7
0.04%
Lincoln
0
-
Mason
+3
0.09%
Okanogan
+4
0.11%
Pacific
0
0.01%
Pend Oreille
+2
0.03%
Pierce
San Juan
0
0.01%
Skagit
Skamania
+2
0.08%
Snohomish
Spokane
Stevens
+2
0.01%
Thurston
Wahkiakum
-1
0.04%
Walla Walla
+11
0.08%
Whatcom
Whitman
-2
0.05%
Yakima
+15
0.07%
Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at December 14, 2004 04:06 PM | Email This
Comments
1. Stefan

How would you handicap the re-cap at this stage?

BTW, I really love this site.

Posted by: Good Captain on December 10, 2004 12:51 PM
2. Good idea. I've been doing the same myself, but I also have been doing tabulation error for each candidate to spot any big variances. I also seem to get a couple of different results, but am guessing I'm doing something a bit off mathwise. Isn't it the number difference in the recount divided the total in the manual recount? Or is it the difference in the recount divided by the total in the prior mechanical count?

Posted by: Matt on December 10, 2004 12:52 PM
3. Stefan, any idea where one might find a list of those counties that counted undervotes last time, and those who just put them through the machines? From what I've read about the Kitsap count, it appears that they didn't count undervotes last time, which explains their higher error rate this time.

Posted by: Timothy on December 10, 2004 12:57 PM
4. Here is another semi-official website, that often has more up to date information than the Secretary of State.

http://www.votewashington.org/recount/recount2_sw.tpl?c=0

Some fellow in Centralia by the name of Larry Hewitt runs this site. He runs elections websites for several county auditors, mostly for the smaller counties. His website usually posts results for these counties before they are posted on the SOS official website.

votewashington.org has Asotin County reporting +5 for Gregoire, +10 for Rossi, and +1 for Bennett. That makes Rossi a net +23 in the manual recount so far, or ahead by +65 in the overall votes.

Posted by: Richard Pope on December 10, 2004 12:57 PM
5. Matt, I'm adding the absolute value of the change in votes from the previous count for each candidate in each county , and then dividing by the total ballots reported for that county in the previous count.

e.g. Walla Walla changed +2 Gregoire, +13 Rossi, -3 Bennett, which is a total of 18 changed votes, divided by 23,269 votes in the machine recount.

For the statewide number, just add up all the county changed votes and divide by total number of ballots in the machine recount statewide.

Posted by: Stefan Sharkansky on December 10, 2004 12:57 PM
6. So how many votes does .1% shift in King County give Gregoire? That, plus a few slip-ins may be enough to turn it... :(

Posted by: Mike on December 10, 2004 01:00 PM
7. Mike,
I think a .1 puts her within strinking distance. The thing that may temper that number is the fact that King has already enhanced many of their optiscan ballots which other counties did not do. Cross your fingers and toes boys and girls.

Posted by: Angry Voter on December 10, 2004 01:14 PM
8. .1 puts her in striking distance--but if everywhere else averages .1 also, then Rossi still wins. (Since, obviously, everything increases by .1).

Posted by: Timothy on December 10, 2004 01:37 PM
9. what a *&(*&&^)* outrage!! Where did all these extra Rossi votes come from. Republican fraud in Kitsap and Walla Walla. There clearly needs to be an investigation.

Posted by: steve on December 10, 2004 01:41 PM
10. Steve,

The democrats planted them so when King County comes in at +103 and Gregoire wins by 2 votes, they can say, "everyone was off and we were just off a little more..."

- Mike

Posted by: Mike on December 10, 2004 01:52 PM
11. Steve - Boy, this question keeps coming up. Obviously you aren't following the comments and news on this recount. The "extra" votes for Rossi are most likely from "enhanced" ballots. King County didn't follow the rules in the 2nd count and already enhanced a bunch of ballots, over 700 in fact, despite the fact it was supposed to be a machine recount only. The other counties followed the rules of a "machine count", and simply put the same ballots through the machine again. I would expect Rossi to pick up votes much like Gregoire did in the 2nd count since they are being visually inspected this time. King County's second count rules are like everybody else's third count rules. Unless Gregoire gets those ballotsi in King County reevaluated she isn't going to make it. Get it?

Posted by: Marc on December 10, 2004 01:52 PM
12. Steve, where were you when +1 here and +2 there was dwarfed by +700 or whatever the number was in King. How 1/3 of the state's population in King had more variance than 2/3 of the rest of the state's population as the question for you to answer before one more person has to acknowledge your eternally repeating, personally discrediting question of an extra vote here and there for Rossi.

Posted by: Chris on December 10, 2004 02:02 PM
13. Kitsap and Walla Walla have actually caused net losses to Rossi, if you add the two recounts together.

Kitsap: Machine Gregoire +15 Rossi -19 Net Gregoire +34. Manual Gregoire +72 Rossi +82 Net Rossi +10. Overall Gregoire +87 Rossi +63 Net Gregoire +24.

Walla Walla: Machine Gregoire +59 Rossi +37 Net Gregoire +22. Manual Gregoire +2 Rossi +13 Net Rossi +11. Overall Gregoire +61 Rossi +50 Net Gregoire +11.

So much for accusations of Republican voter fraud. Besides, the auditor in Kitsap County, Karen Flynn, is a Democrat. Not sure about Walla Walla County.

Posted by: Richard Pope on December 10, 2004 02:08 PM
14. Anybody have any information as to how Dino could LOSE 5 votes in Adams County (which I assume to be a punch card county; Gregoire's numbers were unchanged)? If a punch card was counted during the first two counts, and then doesn't pass muster for the hand count, it seems like it can only be because the chad fell out indicating a punch for Gregoire or the libertarian (making it invalid), or the voter wrote on the ballot in a way that indicated he or she "legally changed their mind." If the former, shouldn't the intent of the voter be descernable by the evidence (the ballot was counted twice before, so in the absence of any other evidence, a dropped chad is the only explanation)? Or am I to believe that the machine counted 5 ballots twice?

Posted by: srogers on December 10, 2004 02:16 PM
15. srogers: How will they know WHICH ballots the machine counted and which were never counted in the first placE? I don't think they are "labeled" in any way with how they are counted in each count...

Posted by: Sarah of WA on December 10, 2004 02:24 PM
16. Adams County uses optical scan, not punchcards. It was a net gain for Rossi in the machine recount, +27 Rossi and +12 Gregoire. So a loss of 5 for Rossi on a hand count isn't so strange.

What is interesting about Adams County is that they counted 5,200 ballots the first time, 5,207 ballots in the machine recount, and 5,204 ballots in the manual recount. (BALLOTS, NOT VOTES) Granted, 7 ballots is not a lot, but it is large in proportion to county size (total variance in ballots counted of 0.14%).

What worries me about King County is not so much whether or not new votes will be found on ballots that were already counted, but whether new ballots will be counted that weren't counted the first two times. I am not talking about the Dems lawsuit, but about having 336 new ballots show up in the machine recount without explanation (898,574 vs. 898,238).

If 336 more new ballots showed up in the manual recount from this same unexplained variance phenomenon, this would be expected to add about 60 net votes for Gregoire, given her 18 point margin in King County.

Posted by: Richard Pope on December 10, 2004 02:27 PM
17. Does your tabulation include Snohomish county or Yakima which should have the same counts as last time since their electronic machines? That would lessen the number of votes outstanding right?

Posted by: jason on December 10, 2004 02:31 PM
18. On further thought, the fact that Gregoire's number didn't increase in Adams (or in Wahkiacum where Dino lost a vote) means that the "change of mind" explanation can't be right, so the only explanations are that one of two particular chads fell off 5 ballots (Dino's would have been punched, and a chad falling out next to Gregoire or the libertarian would invalidate the ballot without giving Gregoire a vote), the hand counters missed 5 ballots, or a machine counted 5 ballots twice.

Again, anyone have any real information? Are there other possible explanations? I think I know which of my three explanations is most likely, which has been the crux of the opposition to the hand count all along.

Posted by: srogers on December 10, 2004 02:31 PM
19. Thanks for correcting me, Richard - we were posting at the same time.

Posted by: srogers on December 10, 2004 02:33 PM
20. Richard - very interesting. On the first recount in Adams, there were 39 additional votes total on 7 additional ballots, which means 32 additional votes were found or enhanced in the 5200 original ballots. So Adams was also doing a "hand recount" much like King County?

And does the loss of five Dino votes mean, therefore, that during the hand recount, five of the votes that were "found" for Rossi (or were counted for him from the 7 additional ballots) were, on second thought, rejected (as in "we now determine that the voter didn't intend to vote for him")?

Posted by: srogers on December 10, 2004 02:43 PM
21. srogers - Adams uses Optical Scan. No chads. The following counties used punchcards: Asotin, Benton, Clallam, Clark, Franklin, Island, Lewis, Lincoln, Mason, Okanogan, Pacific, Stevens, Thurston, and Whatcom. Everyone else used a version of optical scanning equipment.

Posted by: Marc on December 10, 2004 03:00 PM
22. Jefferson County just corrected (2:49 p.m. today) its total for Rossi from 7294 to 7295. This makes +8 Gregoire total, and +6 Rossi total, or +2 Gregoire net. This correction needs to be added to your table, Stefan. Otherwise, you will be straining yourself over the extra vote, just like a penny on a checkbook balancing problem.

This is now +21 Rossi in the manual count for the counties that the SOS has on its website, or +26 Rossi if Asotin County (+5 Gregoire, +10 Rossi, net +5 Rossi) is considered -- reported on votewashington.org, but not on the SOS for some reason.

Thanks to Jefferson County for the correction and the additional Rossi vote.

Posted by: Richard Pope on December 10, 2004 03:04 PM
23. I know that the absentee ballots in King have to be hand counted. What type of ballot was cast on election day in King county? Punch card or optical scanned ballot?

Thanks

Posted by: Ralph on December 10, 2004 03:15 PM
24. Ralph - Optical scan.

Posted by: Marc on December 10, 2004 03:29 PM
25. You may already have answered this in your King hypotheticals, but what if the King county vote increases at the same rate as say, Kitsap? Wouldn't that mean over a thousand "new" votes in King? If the increase is even at the current statewide rate, would that be eight hundred or so? I'm just eyeballing it, and hoping my math is wrong.

Posted by: George on December 10, 2004 03:34 PM
26. Lewis County just reported in: +2 Gregoire, +9 Rossi, net +7 Rossi. SOS website has overall net of +28 Rossi now.

Asotin County still is not on the SOS website, even though their manual recount was completed several hours ago. They are posted on votewashington.org +5 Gregoire, +10 Rossi, or a net of +5 Rossi. This would make the overall manual count of +33 Rossi.

I called the Asotin County Auditor's office, and they said they had sent the report to the SOS office several hours ago. I called the SOS office, and they said Asotin County had not done so. The lady in Asotin County said she would look into it, and hopefully correct the problem.

Posted by: Richard Pope on December 10, 2004 03:56 PM
27. The extra Rossi vote in Jefferson County was an undervote that went to the canvassing board. It was clearly a Rossi vote. Interesting to watch what surfaces up during this hand recount process. Human error is alive & well. We found a Rossi vote that went into the Gregoire pile in a precindt in Jefferson County. How many times do you think this will happen....and how many times will it be rectified??? Dems are worried about be able to count more ballots. We are concerned about hand recounting those already counted and doing it accurately.

Posted by: Mr. Cynical on December 10, 2004 07:46 PM
28. Knowing Franklin County got done counting all the princts today, but didn't end up tabulating everything and turning into the state I think there's another batch of ballots not yet reflected in most the county returns and alluded to by the State's website disclaimer about certification.

Each county has x number of ballots that went to their canvassing board in sealed envelopes for review. Franklin County had 20 according to the Republican head site monitor. I bet Franklin reports the mass count, but won't include the 20's disposition until later.

If true, be ready for county numbers to change a bit again before the bitter end.

Am I a pundit yet?

Posted by: Matt on December 10, 2004 10:29 PM
29. Lewis county has a ? I think not.

Posted by: Nathan Azinger on December 11, 2004 02:03 AM
30. Heh. That comment didn't quite turn out like I expected. It should read: "Lewis county has a 100% turnout rate?"

Posted by: Nathan Azinger on December 11, 2004 02:06 AM
31. Well as predicted King has "found" 500 more votes:
Logan said election workers mistakenly rejected 561 absentee ballots because they thought signatures on the ballots did not match original voter registration records.
see:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=519&ncid=703&e=3&u=/ap/20041213/ap_on_re_us/washington_governor_s_race

Posted by: Zorkpolitics on December 13, 2004 01:37 PM
32. One of the rejected ballots belonged to King County Council Chairman Larry Phillips, The Seattle Times reported.

"I was under the absolute impression not only I voted, but followed the instructions correctly," Phillips said. "If it can happen to the King County Council chairman, it can happen to anyone else."

Told you guys that Republicans would lose this one, now what, to the courts, whine about it, or do what you told the Democrats to do, suck it up and admit defeat.

Your call

Posted by: Sha on December 13, 2004 02:17 PM
33. Stephan,
any way you can make a flow-sheet of the "Required increase in trailing candidate's lead from machine recount to flip election", "Increase from machine count lead needed to win with realistic new votes", and/or confidence in Rossi Victory. That would be interesting to see as new counties come in. Also it may show trends/abnormalities a little more easily! I don't mean to give you more work, but I'd be interested to follow the flow! thanks, great site from a Rossi voter in Spokane!!!

Posted by: Brian on December 13, 2004 02:36 PM
34. Sorry, that should have been Stefan, not Stephan!

Posted by: Brian on December 13, 2004 02:37 PM
35. What's the matter Stefan... you've lost confidence in your ability to predict confidence?

Like I said: "garbage in, garbage out."

Posted by: David Goldstein on December 13, 2004 02:50 PM
36. Well, Goldy, I guess we should listen to you. After all, you are the expert on garbage. I've been to your website.

Posted by: Chris on December 13, 2004 03:20 PM
37. Isn't it a crime to mess with the election process? I think King County voters should get the DA or whatever you call the prosecutor in Wash to bring criminal charges against the entire elections office in King County for "finding" 500+ more ballots. If this fiasco hadn't been so predictable, it would be funny.

Posted by: Mac on December 13, 2004 03:25 PM
38. Didn't other counties find 321 new ballots ... with a lot more to go?

should criminal procedings be initiated everywhere? Even where Rossi gains votes?

Posted by: tom on December 13, 2004 03:51 PM
39. tom - There is a very big difference between new ballots and new votes. King is finding new ballots. Most everyone else is finding new votes in the existing ballots by discerning voter intent.

Posted by: Marc on December 13, 2004 04:10 PM
40. Can someone please explain how Yakime county found 55 more votes when there is no paper involved?

Posted by: John Milem on December 13, 2004 04:15 PM
41. Absentees.

Posted by: Timothy on December 13, 2004 04:17 PM
42. Actually, from the reports in the paper, the ballots seem to be the same type. It's just that Democrats are demonized as cheaters when this happens in D counties. Makes sense....as they might be cheating. But same is probably true in R counties.

Actual truth is both sides will claim whatever they want to get their guy elected. Honestly saying that would make things much more palatable for the citizenry.

Posted by: tom on December 13, 2004 04:22 PM
43. Thanks, Timothy. I've enjoyed your work on this topic.

Posted by: John Milem on December 13, 2004 04:26 PM
44. If Gregoire only needs 177 new two party (D or R) votes to appear in King County, after the effects of the latest batch of 561 magical mystery ballots are taken into account, then the required tabulation error is only 0.02%, and not the 0.08% contained in the table.

A 0.08% tabulation error would only apply if 712 new two party (D or R) votes were required out of King County. But since 535 new two party votes are estimated out of the 561 newly countable ballots, this means only 177 more votes need to be divined from the existing ballots. And the tabulation error to divine 177 more votes from the 898,574 (or so) existing ballots is only 0.02%.

The situation, needless to say, does not look very good. An additional tabulation error of 0.02% from King County in a manual recount would be fairly easy to achieve.

Posted by: Richard Pope on December 13, 2004 06:33 PM
45. Richard, you are correct. The 0.08% tabulation error is based on 712 new ballots required. Those would include however many of today's 561 magical mystery ballots are accepted and are for one of the two major parties.

Posted by: Stefan Sharkansky on December 13, 2004 06:43 PM
46. According to the numbers I'm running (and granted I'm no math whiz), and assuming there is a 60/40 split in the 561 new ballots (I know this doesn't take into account the Libertarian and "other" votes) then Gregoire will have a 112 vote net gain, giving her a 24 vote lead in the race as a whole as things stand now.

Of course this doesn't take into account the error rate in any of the uncounted counties (including King). It really is going to be a toss-up. Again.

Posted by: Nathan Azinger on December 13, 2004 07:56 PM
47. Stefan - Were the newly found 560 ballots allowed in today. I haven't heard yet - wasn't that before the KC election board?

Posted by: CP on December 13, 2004 08:35 PM
48. Here's my take, but, front end, I admit there's a lot about this I don't know.

Gregoire is gaining votes in the hand recount at a faster rate than Rossi. In 24 counties reporting so far, she has turned 231,875 machine-counted votes into 232,019 hand-counted votes, a gain of 144 votes. Rossi has turned 317,910 into 318,100, a gain of 190. If the additional votes were distributed as the machine counted ones were, Rossi would have gained 193 and Gregoire only 141. Rossi is gaining about one vote less per hundred among the additional votes than among the machine counted votes. This is why I say Gregoire is gaining votes in the hand recount at a faster rate than Rossi.

Extending this rate of vote-gaining over the entire machine counted vote suggests Rossi picks up a total of 820 votes in the hand recount and Gregoire picks up 852. If that's the end of it, Rossi wins by 10 votes, 42 vote lead from machine recount less Gregoire's imputed 32 vote margin in additional votes from the hand recount.

However, there are the additional 561 ballots in King county. If these are distributed as the machine counted votes were, Gregoire gets 316 and Rossi gets 219. So this 97-vote margin gives Gregoire a win by 87 votes.

Here's some of what's wrong with my analysis.

Different voting technologies are likely to produce different amounts of additional votes. Are the different technologies in use represented in the same proportions in the 20% of the ballots so far reported as they are in the state as a whole? Probably not.

It would be great if we had a list of the counties showing the technology used for polling place votes (SecState website shows this piece) and the one used for absentee votes. Then, we would also need to know the number of votes for each of the two candidates in each county produced by each technology. Is this information available somewhere?

Richard Pope's thoughts on the additional King county ballots suggest that the machine-counted ballots may not be a useful predictor of the votes on the additional ballots.

I'm interested to learn what else is faulty in my analysis.

You're a great host, Stefan.

Posted by: John Milem on December 13, 2004 09:27 PM
49. John - Good thoughts. I would consider one other item. In the 2nd count King County essentially did a manual count (visually inspected ballots, discerned voter intent, enhanced bubbles, etc) before running them through the counting machines. It is my understanding that the other counties did not do this since it was supposed to be a machine count only. I would expect the other counties, since they waited for the manual count to discern voter intent on undervotes/overvotes to actually "find" new votes in their ballots. In theory, King County should have a very low tabulation error in the manual count since they already "found" additional votes in their ballots on the 2nd count.

Posted by: Marc on December 13, 2004 11:17 PM
50. I find it hard to believe that King County has "discovered" very many Republican votes. It is naive to think they will ever stop counting before Gregoire wins.

Posted by: Carl on December 14, 2004 07:42 AM
51. Thanks, Marc. Is it really correct that only King county enhanced ballots for the machine recount? Not sure why, but I have the impression that a least some other counties did that also. Does anyone know how many and which counties enhanced ballots for the machine recount?

Posted by: John Milem on December 14, 2004 09:34 AM
52. My Franklin County just reported to the state. +10 for Gregoire and +15 for Rossi. Net gain, but the tabulation error between this count and the last machine count seems high at 0.20% and 0.14% respectively for each candidate (subject to my lesser Excel skills than Stefan) or 0.16% for the county.

Posted by: Matt on December 14, 2004 03:46 PM
53. Rossi now up +64 with 29 counties reporting.

Posted by: Steve on December 14, 2004 03:49 PM
54. Sorry, I meant to add that he is +64 with 29 counties reporting and +106 overall now.

With the King County 531 extras, every + overall helps.

Posted by: Steve on December 14, 2004 03:51 PM
55. With 30 counties, Rossi + 62, or +104 overall as of 4:05 12/14

Posted by: Steve on December 14, 2004 04:05 PM
56. I'd love to be optimistic, but same pattern as last time. Trend going well, lead increasing, and King is last to come in. Sheesh, this is like a triple overtime game.

Posted by: Chris on December 14, 2004 04:30 PM
57. With the 561 new ballots, I think Rossi needs to be up at least 125 after all the other counties are done to be able to pull this thing out. There is no way Gregoire would have made it without the "found" absentee ballots, but lo and behold King came through again. There's a shocker!

Posted by: Marc on December 14, 2004 04:40 PM
58. John-- I have been wondering that exact same thing for quite a while now, and am no closer to an answer. By looking at the changes in error rate between the two different count, we can guess at it. Those with significantly larger error rates than before probably didn't enhance ballots before, while those with smaller error rates than before probably did. I've got a more detailed look at that stuff over at FOTW.

But it sure would make life easier if anyone had any hard data...

Posted by: Timothy on December 14, 2004 04:47 PM
59. Pray and hope your Gov-elect Rossi has enough to hold on. This sure looks like the standard Democrat practice used in New Mexico a number of times (after-election "discovery" of ballots, et al), that I said would happen (circa 3 weeks ago). Your Jim King criticized me and a few other "outsiders' for insinuating that the election process in Wash was beginning to resemble the same sad story that has occured in a number of other states. But, sorry, this is text-book Dem politics.

Find Just.Enough.Votes late, from your Friendly Polling Places. At least there hasn't been any reported use of "dead" names, or animals. Yet.

-jbas.

Posted by: jbas on December 14, 2004 04:54 PM
60. Well feh.

Chris Vance just said on KVI that the 'found' ballots are no longer 561... it's 577.


Stephan, just move the 'Votes they need to find' down to, say, 100 so they'll stop finding more.

Posted by: Al on December 14, 2004 05:23 PM
61. Can someone help me out in why the the rejected list of King County 1500 voters has some of the same names as of the 561 (oops, 577) "found" votes? If the 1500 list is what they went to the Supremes for, then shouldn't those names be omitted for any vote count?

Posted by: LJW on December 14, 2004 05:27 PM
62. LJW, took me a while to find the two links, so I thought I'd append them.

The 561 'erroneously excluded' ballots:
http://www.metrokc.gov/elections/news/2004_12_13.htm

The 1500 ballots in the Supreme Court case:
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/voters14ww.html

Posted by: Al on December 14, 2004 05:55 PM
63. Heh, I got all the way through the F's - all of the names on the 561 list are on the other list - - which has already been ruled on by the Supreme Court!

Posted by: Al on December 14, 2004 06:09 PM
64. I have a question regarding Rossi's growing lead..... can this be attributed to King County's partial hand recount? In other words, Gregoire gained votes after the partial King County hand recount, and now Rossi is regaining those votes in other counties?

If so, is it safe to assume that Rossi will win by about 250 like he did on the first count?

Thanks

Posted by: scott on December 14, 2004 06:25 PM
65. I consider to be amazed at the concern over King County's recount with scant mention that Rossi picks up votes left and right throughout the state with absolutely no mention of concern regarding those ballots. King County happens to be largely democratic -- could that be the reason?

All previous explanations boil down to: democrats lie/cheat and republicans do not. We had some brave souls admit it's not about right/wrong, but about political influence--the most honest thing said in this whole process.

Would everyone agree? Let the recount, as provided by law, happen and act upon the result as you see fit (presumably Rossi and gang will sue if Rossi is behind; Gregoire will finally figure out three strikes is too many and fold)...


Posted by: tom on December 14, 2004 06:26 PM
66. Thinking about this some more - if their signature was on the ballot, but their signature "wasn't in the computer". Then any fraud would not need to be on the _ballot_, but on the voter registration card.

That is, an unregistered person could fills out a ballot. Then, after the election, comes in and gets their card filled out.

So when was the Councilman's voting card signed? How about the 561 others? Because if the elections department had followed standard procedures competently, all of these would have been entered into the computer, checked, vetted etc all before the ballots were mailed out! (You mean their database doesn't check to see if there's a signature on file first?!?)

So these weren't standard somehow. Handing the card in late (like, say, _today_) would be non-standard.

Posted by: Al on December 14, 2004 06:28 PM
67. Does any one find it strange that the list of "561" (or 577 - and whatever they add)does not have any names starting with A or B, but includes 5 that start with Z? What are the odds of that?

Posted by: CDC on December 14, 2004 06:32 PM
68. My simple model shows no net gain from the manual predicted when the recount is completed.
Current margin for Rossi among maual counted votes: 14.9439% times total new votes 432 = his predicted lead if votes are found at random is 64.5, actual Rossi lead is 64. Thus so far the manual recount reflects the Rossi lead in the smaller counties.
Since the final manual recount results will be a virtual tie, I predict the manual recount will end with a net 0 change and a 42 vote win for Rossi.
But since there are also 561 newly reserrected ballots in King, these should add 99 votes for Gregoire (Gregoire margin in King was 17.772% times 561 = 99), thus looks like a 57 vote win for Gregoire.
However, since King mannually enhanced ballots during the machine recount, will they find less new votes than predicted?

Posted by: zorkpolitics on December 14, 2004 06:44 PM
69. More on the 561 list - the second name name on the list sounds fishy - name_last-"Condon" name_first-"Condon" of Seattle. It may be ok but...?

Posted by: cdc on December 14, 2004 06:46 PM
70. More on the 561 list - the second name name on the list sounds fishy - name_last-"Condon" name_first-"Condon" of Seattle. It may be ok but...?

Posted by: cdc on December 14, 2004 06:47 PM
71. When did the number 56l (which sounds pretty definitive to me) become 577. They FOUND another 16 ballots in an hour. At this rate it won't matter what the Supreme Court had to say. Nice to have a fall-back position.

Posted by: CP on December 14, 2004 07:29 PM
72. Thanks Stevan for your new post explaining where the 17 extra ballots stem from. Can this insanity be stopped?? What recourse does Rossi have to this? There HAS to be some deadline. The dems talk about the deadline being when the election is certified. It has already been certified, yet they can add in new votes? Back to the Supremes on our end?

Posted by: CP on December 14, 2004 07:43 PM
73. There are 573 people on the "no signature on file list" and 1554 people on the "mismatched" signature list for King County absentee voters. Apparently, all of the 573 names are included in the 1554 person list. So this means 981 names that really were mismatched signatures.

Again, the caution that I have only done a "machine count" and "machine recount" to determine these numbers. If anyone wants to do a "manual recount", be my guest :)

Interesting, the 573 "no signature on file" list does not start until the last name of "Chartes-Maclean". This same voter is number 234 on the larger list of 1554 allegedly mismatched signatures. That means that 233 of the 981 actually mismatched signature voters were before "Chartes-Maclean" alphabetically, or some 23.75% of the larger sample.

I don't know whether 23.75% of the population in general, or more properly, the King County voter population, falls before "Chartes-Maclean" alphabetically. My (expire in) May 2005 Seattle Metro white pages has 1418 pages of residential listings. The name "Charters" (yes, a real person's name -- this portion does not have the business listings) falls on page 205, which happens to be only 14.46% of the way through the telephone book.

So it does look like disparate treatment of voters by thoroughly incompetent King County elections personnel, based upon where someone's name was in the alphabet. My theory on this as a possible explanation:

1. The absentee ballots were initially divided out alphabetically for signature verification, with each employee getting a certain portion of the alphabet to verify against the optical imaging system.

2. Someone in the initial range of A to Ch was a lot more thorough or strict at rejecting names, which explains why the 981 real mismatched signatures come 23.75% from this category, while only about 14.46% of the King County population falls in this category.

3. Other employee(s) were assigned to verify absentee ballots whose signatures were not on the optical imaging system by looking at the original registration records. This was an extremely tedious job, so when someone got to the "Ch" range, they simply gave all and decided to arbitrarily reject all of the remaining ballots.

There is another explanation as to why the no-signature record ballots start with "Chartes-Maclean", which is more omninous, if not more likely. Please note that number 234 out of a 1554 person list happens to fall 15.06% of the way down the list -- almost exactly the same as the 14.46% suggested by looking at the white pages of the telephone directory.

So it is possible that whoever Dean Logan commissioned to look for the "no signature on file" ballots started at the bottom of the list, and worked his or her way towards the top. For whatever reason, the worker or workers stopped with "Chartes-Maclean" and did not go any further forward in the alphabet.

One way this could happen, without intentional malfeasance, would be if Dean Logan had the list of 1554 voters printed out to check -- let's say this came out to 29 names on a page. The first eight pages of the list, comprising the first 232 mismatched absentee voters, get lost or misplaced somehow. Only the remaining 46 pages of the list (which would be 54 pages in total) are handed out to election workers to check. Therefore, the "no signature on file" list that is compiled by this process does not start until "Chartes-Maclean".

If this is what happened, then they found 573 "no signature on file" ballots out of the last 1321 or so names on the 1554 person list, or 43.48% of that portion of the list.

If they go back to the 1554 person list, and look at the 233 names before "Chartes-Maclean", they should be expected to find another 233 x 43.48%, or roughly 101 additional "no signature on file" ballots.

Posted by: Richard Pope on December 14, 2004 07:54 PM
74. And, by the way, my "machine count" of the (presently) 573 person "no signature on file" list shows that 272 names are from "Seattle". This happens to be 47.47% of the list from Seattle, as compared with 35.67% of the ballots cast in the election being from Seattle. This disproportionate share from very heavily Democrat Seattle does not bode very well at all for Rossi's chance of holding on to victory.

Posted by: Richard Pope on December 14, 2004 08:20 PM
75. Can someone clarify the effect of the Supreme Court decision? My impression is that the plaintiffs wanted the Court to order recanvassing of previously rejected ballots. The Court declined to issue such an order. However, that does not amount to an order not to recanvass. So, I'm guessing that the county canvassing boards are left free to recanvass if they want to. King county is not ordered by the court to recanvass the 1500 (or whatever number) of ballots, but they can do it if they want to.

Posted by: John Milem on December 14, 2004 08:23 PM
76. Richard - You are going through an awful lot of contortions trying to make sense out of this. At this rate you'll be in my ward at the home under lock and key. "They" will find however many ballots they NEED to win. Be easy on yourself.

Posted by: CP on December 14, 2004 08:25 PM
77. Another County in

Rossi gains another 6, now +70 or +112 overall

Whatcom County +16 and +22

Posted by: Steve on December 15, 2004 01:42 PM
78. Skagit now in

Gregoire -16
Rossi -5

or a net +11 for Rossi, now up +81 and +123 overall

Posted by: Steve on December 15, 2004 02:46 PM
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