December 07, 2004
Gribbles, Grickels and the Tunnel of Love

Seattle's fiscally incontinent Mayor Greg Nickels wants to replace the Alaskan Way Viaduct with a tunnel, even though it would be vastly more expensive than simply rebuilding the Viaduct. The Viaduct needs to be replaced, because:

The nearby seawall is also at risk. Its support timbers have been eroded by decay and infestation by underwater wood lice, called gribbles, and the structure was damaged in the earthquake.
Gribbles? This suggests a new name for Mayor Greg Nickels: Grickels! As in:
Seattle's economy is also at risk. Its business climate and financial integrity have been eroded by decay and infestation by a fiscally irresponsible Mayor, called Grickels ...
Mayor Grickels acknowledges why he loves the Tunnel:
There is no question that the tunnel is a very expensive project, but the tunnel has the best chance of attracting a broad coalition of supporters from business, labor, environmental and community leaders.
The above but is a typo and should be replaced by a therefore. All of the constituencies that suckle on the public teat -- public works employee unions, construction contractors, environmental impact consultants, bond underwriters, bureaucrats, lobbyists, etc. will do very well with the more expensive Tunnel of Love.

The rest of us who have no need or want for a Bostonian Big Dig would only suffer and pay through the nose.

Posted by Stefan Sharkansky at December 07, 2004 04:09 PM | Email This
Comments
1. I was reading that doing a simple replace on the viaduct would cost $3.2 billion, while the tunnel would cost $4.0 billion.

If we're talking about a 20% difference here, I'd rather have the tunnel myself as well, and open up the space for private development or mixed use public access / private development and gain property tax revenue for the land on top, which you could not do by keeping the viaduct there.

Posted by: DustinJames on December 7, 2004 04:24 PM
2. The article in the Times about the state's preference for a tunnel seemed to make the case that a park-like waterfront was the deciding factor for deciding on a tunnel rather than another viaduct.

What I did not see was a careful assessment of the traffic impact (how many trucks have to shift to I5) and access to downtown. Let alone any idea of the real cost for those two options. As in, why would a short stretch of viaduct on the footprint of the old viaduct cost $3.2B? Who has gone over that estimate?

Posted by: iconoclast on December 7, 2004 04:29 PM
3. Lets not only rebuild it, but make it 3X taller. Call it the Skyoduct, six levels, just think of the increased capacity.

Posted by: CandrewB on December 7, 2004 04:34 PM
4. Wasn't there another option to just fix the existing viaduct that was much cheaper?

I don't suppose any of the property owners along the east side of the viaduct have any conflict of interest with the Mayor.

Posted by: Jeff B. on December 7, 2004 04:38 PM
5. CandrewB

OK, sounds good to me. Maybe that will finally help offload I5 through downtown.

And what, exactly, is the loss? Besides view for office space, I really don't understand.

Posted by: iconoclast on December 7, 2004 04:40 PM
6. Seattle seems to just love tunnels. The one from the viaduct up to highway 99 is as old as dirt. The downtown bus tunnel that cost how many millions (?) and is not even used for its intended purpose of removing buses from downtown streets. The new Sound Transit construction which is about to tunnel under Beacon Hill and Capitol Hill. Fiasco coming...

Posted by: vox freedom on December 7, 2004 04:54 PM
7. Hmmm...$3.2B for a replacement, $4.0B for a tunnel.


Anyone want to bet me if the tunnel is chosen it will come in at a minimum of $1B over budget?


Think...light rail.

Posted by: South County on December 7, 2004 05:36 PM
8. Let's see now. Seattle spends billions on planning, re-planning and re-re-planning. This is great for creating huge government bureaucracy's and consultants. Folks feel good cuz they have something to feel involved in & discuss to death while the cost-meter is spinning at warp speed. However, while Seattle spends it's money on the Elsie the Cow methof of excess process (you know, chew on it, swallow it, spit it up, chew it again, swallow it and on & on), the tax base leaves because Seattle is too expensive to do business or live in. The Government workers & consultants who never go away panic because the trough is empty. They start eating each other...it's an awful, grizzly sight!!!!! Since I live in a rural County and the Seattle political Leftist elite makes me ill, can you blame a guy for dreamin'!
Seattle would not be in such a snarl...if Marx had been Groucho, instead of Karl!!

Posted by: Mr. Cynical on December 7, 2004 09:29 PM
9. It won't be just Seattle that pays for that boondoggle...even those of us who avoid that city like the plague will be taxed for it.

After all, the feds financed the Boston Big Dig (thanks John Kerry), so every taxpayer in the USA got to pay for that mess. I suspect we'll all have to pay for the new tunnel (and sea wall) as well, just so all the Seattle hippies can have a nice waterfront park.

Posted by: Kevin S on December 7, 2004 10:51 PM
10. Gee wouldn't it be cheaper to add a few more lanes on I5, but of course that would not be the most expensive option...shame on me for even thinking that these people in this state can stop dreaming of spending all of the tax payers incomes in this state. I really wonder since the Light-rail is now twice as expensive and half as long if this tunnel won't end up ultimately be 10 billion or more. Who estimated this?

Posted by: Greg on December 8, 2004 12:10 AM
11. The Feds didn't finance ALL of Boston's Big Dig - John Kerry's constituents bit a really big financial weenie on that one as well. And the State was all too well represented on the Board which so creatively mismanaged the construction process.

Agree that by the time Seattle's Big Dig fiasco is constructed (if ever), the currrent estimated costs will be dwarfed by the real world figures. The Democratic fiefdom of Boston has nothing on the Democratic fiefdom of Seattle when it comes to boondoggles. Can anyone imagine what havoc the combination of Seattle's caricature of a City Council and our two Democratic Senators will wreak after all the lovely add-ons their creative thinking will provide have been added to the project, AFTER its initial scope and budget are fixed? Be very afraid.

Posted by: Hank Bradley on December 8, 2004 09:45 AM
12. The only reason the price tag is anywhere near close is that they've lumped 'sea wall replacement' and 'battery street tunnel replacement' into the base cost.

Shortly after the Nisqually Quake, the state engineering department was giving a review of _just_ the viaduct portion, and mentioned that replacing the existing viaduct with 2 new lanes and new on/off ramps would be $750 million on TVW. Right before the Secretary of Transportation chewed him out for 'discussing numbers'.

They're lumping 'everything' into the 3.2 billion number, and not-so-much into the 4.0 billion number... precisely to get the response "Hey, that's not such a big difference!".

It is when you get half the freight capacity, a prohibition on certain types of freight, and the 'car' capacity doesn't seem similar either. It's the 'what is the smallest tunnel we can make and get away with' plan, not a 'what size tunnel do we need to carry current capacity'. Remember just a couple of years ago what THOSE price tags were?

My choice would be: spend 750 million for a new, modern, two-tier viaduct. Then spent 200 million for one more layer - a major park layer.

Every single constituency is served. A park at the same level as Pike Place market, ground level business areas, elevated viewing areas with clear views of the bay. This leverages the city is already inherently layered anyway.

The _ONLY_ constituencies not served are 1) the landowners that have been pushing for the city to upgrade their realestate value, 2) the spend-nothing-ever groups.

Posted by: Al on December 8, 2004 12:07 PM
13. A tunnel sounds okay to me, but I'd rather have one running underneath the Sound... let them deal with the growth over there. And I hope that spending all this money on a tunnel doesn't interfere with really necessary things, like a new 520 bridge. I'm just waiting for that thing to sink on me someday.

Posted by: tuxmelvin on December 8, 2004 01:12 PM
14. How about a one-way tunnel going out of Seattle that dead-ends under the Sound because they ran out of money processing, planning & change-ordering this thing to death that they ran out of money??? If we only allowed those who know the Sevret Marxist handshake to use that dead-end tunnel....

Posted by: Mr. Cynical on December 8, 2004 01:30 PM
15. How about a one-way tunnel going out of Seattle that dead-ends under the Sound because they ran out of money processing, planning & change-ordering this thing to death that they ran out of money??? If we only allowed those who know the Sevret Marxist handshake to use that dead-end tunnel....

Posted by: Mr. Cynical on December 8, 2004 01:31 PM
16. Mr. C, I like the way you think.

Posted by: South County on December 8, 2004 01:51 PM
17. I didn't read that Times article that everyone is discussing, but a year ago, the city was talking about 11B for a tunnel with all the trimmings.

Posted by: West Sider on December 23, 2004 02:23 PM
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